Some questions on necropsies

Thankfully this is not something I really need to be worrying about (Munch and Monk are doing well), but it is something that I am curious about, and feel like I should have some knowledge of.

My questions..

1. I have heard that it is possible to ship gliders for necropsies, and have seen how to do this (from Peggy's post on GliderCentral). My question here is, how long after death should the glider be shipped? And to whom? I see on the Sugar Groups website to contact Val if you wish to have the glider shipped to the Sugar Group.. My concern here is that one might not be able to get ahold of Val in time for a necropsy to be done, if there is a set limit of time.

2. Costs. How much, about, do necropsys cost? Cost is one of the prime reasons that I can see many owners not doing a necrospy (along with feeling like the glider has simply been through too much, and is too dear to the owners hearts). I, myself, have questions over whether or not I could get a necropsy done. A lot of that is concern over cost -- I just truthfully would rather put money towards an emergency fund for gliders that are still alive, though I do understand how important necropsys are.

First and foremost, if your glider should pass away, you should put it in a ziploc bag and in the REFRIGERATOR, NOT in the freezer. This will preserve the glider while you mourn and decide if you want a necropsy done.

Deciding if you wish to have a necropsy done is a decision you should make BEFORE you need to, so Kudos to you Sara for thinking ahead. It is too hard to make this type of decision when you are very sad and mourning. So, get the facts and do your research ahead of time.

There are two primary reasons that people participate in necropsies:
* They provide a definite cause of death, so you do not have to wonder.
* Now, with the organized efforts to research, you can know that your glider's death helped others in the future. For some, this is a very important thing to know.

Lastly, everyone should remember that a NECROPSY alone will often not provide them answers. A necropsy with HISTOPATHOLOGY is much more conclusive and thorough. Unfortunately, this is also where the cost begins to skyrocket.


As to your questions, the answers are not short, so I will do my best to provide you the information you need to make an informed decision:

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I have heard that it is possible to ship gliders for necropsys, and have seen how to do this (from Peggy's post on GliderCentral).

Yes, it is possible to ship a glider for a necropsy. The SUGAR Group is currently working on some instructions which would allow you to ship the glider from items you already have in your home (plus dry ice or ice pack). We realize that most people do not have the materials already, so we are trying to help make this as easy as possible. So, stay tuned to the SUGAR Group's website for those instructions.

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My question here is, how long after death should the glider be shipped?

The glider should be shipped as soon after death as possible - there is no set time limit. It is not always easy or possible to ship the day of death or even the day after, so keep the glider in the refrigerator until the day of shipping. The glider MUST be shipped overnight. So, be sure to familiarize yourself with your options for overnight shipping in your area.

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And to whom?

This is another place where glider owners must make a decision.

Dr. Tim Tristan has agreed to accept gliders for necropsy. He does not participate in the SUGAR Group's research.
Dr. Tristan is a VETERINARIAN with experience treating sugar gliders. Therefore, if you ship to him, your necropsy will be performed by him. He will harvest the tissues for histopathology and send them off to a lab. He has no control over cost or time that this might take.
Dr. Tristan requests that the glider be shipped to him within 24 hours of death.


The SUGAR Group will also accept sugar gliders for necropsy within our research. The SUGAR Group is the first to organize an effort to utilize necropsies in research in connection with many professionals. Our necropsy and histopathology reports are combined with our necropsy survey and the results are analyzed by a variety of professionals including 2-3 veterinarians who regularly treat sugar gliders, a pathologist and a laboratory technician. Additionally, The SUGAR Group provides updates and information on the research twice per year via our website.

The SUGAR Group works with Texas Veterinary Medical Diagnostic Labs to conduct necropsy and histopathology. The Doctors we work with are veterinary PATHOLOGISTS, so they do not practice veterinary medicine. Their primary job is the study and analysis of bodies after death. Therefore, they are very familiar with the process of autolysis (the body breaking down after death) and are able to make accurate diagnosis even many days after death (as long as the body has been preserved correctly). They work in the very lab building where parasitology, bacteriology, histopathology and virology will be conducted should they need to be.

If you ship to the SUGAR Group, the glider is shipped to my house and then I will deliver it to the lab personally and speak with the doctors (any and all that might need to be involved) and make sure they are aware of what we are looking for.

Dr.'s Trybus and Gilmore request that gliders be shipped to them within 72 hours of death.

You can also have your primary veterinarian conduct the necropsy and harvest the tissues for histopathology - just like Dr. Tirstan does. So, why don't people always do this? A few reasons:
1) Some vets are not familiar enough with sugar gliders to do a thorough analysis of the organs.
2) Some vets refuse to do necropsies and insist that you ship them off anyway
3) Cost - for many this is a very expensive procedure. Remember, vets have no control over what their lab costs are.
But, this is an option that everyone has. It is worth it for you to have the conversation with your vet, as this option would allow you to have the body back for burial.

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Costs. How much, about, do necropsys cost?

This varies too.

If you have your own vet do it, then costs vary widely. Some vets only charge for the histopathology. Others for both necropsy and histopathology. At this time, we are finding that the average cost across the nation for both done by your own veterinarian is $150-400.

If you ship to Dr. Tristan, you have the cost of overnight shipping (which averages $34-98 depending on carrier and time shipped) + $25 for the necropsy and anywhere from $150-250 for histopathology (depending upon the number of slides he sends out). So, minimum cost for sending to Dr. Tristan is $209, with upper range of $373.

If you ship to The SUGAR Group, you have the cost of overnight shipping ($34-98 depending upon carrier and time shipped) + $50 (total) for necropsy AND histopathology of a minimum of the 5 major organs (kidney, liver, brain, heart, lungs).
The SUGAR Group is able to provide this minimal cost because
1) The NECROPSY EFFORT assists with cost by matching the owner's $50
2) Because I personally walk samples in (saving on materials and shipping) and because the SUGAR Group is working with TVMDL on several projects, we get a special rate on necropsies. Our average is $103. So, we pass the savings on to those who participate in our research.

I should note here, IF you send to the SUGAR Group, you will also be asked to complete a survey. Our necropsy survey is combined with the necropsy and histopathology reports and allows us to begin to put all the pieces together. The survey combined with the reports gives us a clearer picture of symptoms seen prior to death and of other factors which might have contributed to the death.
We do require that the survey be completed before any reports will be released to you.

As to reports:
Dr. Tristan lets you know the results of necropsy the day he completes the necropsy. Again, he has no control over the time histopathology reports take to come in.

The SUGAR Group can have Dr. Trybus or Gilmore call with preliminary results if you like. TSG has an account with TVMDL, so each individual report is emailed to us the day it is completed (parasitology, virology, bacteriology, necropsy, histo, etc.) and, if the survey has been completed, will be forwarded to you that day as well.


No matter who completes your necropsy and histopathology, you can send reports to The SUGAR Group and complete our survey in order to help with our research.

Sara, thank you for posting this. And thank you too Val ~ I soooo needed to hear all you said.

My husband is not keen on having a necropsy done on any of our gliders (or other animals.) BUT for $50 and the fact that I have the final say-so, I think I could talk him into this.

I do have one question. And man, it brings tears even thinking about it. Since I'm only 4 hours away from you, could I deliver my glider if/when they pass? If that would be possible, of course I would be willing to come on your time and meet whoever/wherever.

Okay, so I have another concern as well. I would like to have my gliders ashes. Would that even be possible? Maybe a pet cemetary in your area offers creamation?

Crystal

Yes, you could bring the glider to me. And, yes, we could discuss cremation.

I do always recommend that you clip some hair from the back of the glider and save it in a baggie before shipping. This way, you have SOMETHING of the glider, in case anything gets lost or misplaced.

Thank you so much, Val, for sharing this.

When our first glider died, we had no idea why, so our vet did a necrospy on him. We got them April 30th, we fixed him June 18th and July 25th, he was gone. The vet couldn't find a reason for his death. He felt it could have been because I wasn't feeding as well as I should have. I paid so much attention to the ca:ph ratios that I didn't think of anything else he should have been eating, like protein.

His sister died 2 months later of Giardia. Since we knew what had killed her, we felt we didn't need a necrospy. If ever another one would happen to die before me, I will be doing a necrospy without thinking twice abouit it, so we can learn what happened and what took him/her.

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The vet couldn't find a reason for his death,

This is why we always recommend histopathology in addition to the necropsy. With a histopathology you don't have to guess, and if you then modify your behavior or treatment, it is based upon facts rather than feelings or assumptions.

Both necropsy and histopathology are very important.

All excellent information. Unfortunately, I was in this position just a few days ago with the death of Itsy, a glider that came to me from an owner in N.J. Just some information. Overnight shipping to Val cost $120.00. Neither UPS or FedEx had the *correct* shipping containers OR the accessories necessary so I had to run all over just to find something that would suffice. Also, believe it or not, dry ice was NOT readily available here in my area and again, a wild goose chase just to find it. So Sara, I think it's great that you're looking ahead at this in order to be prepared should you need to do this.

I believe TGI will soon be offering the shipping kits, so you will have everything that you need when you need it.

Also, shipping costs vary depending on where you are shipping from. If within Texas, you can overnight ship to me for very little compared to shipping from up north. Be prepared with up to $150 for shipping just in case.

At my vet, just a necropsy was $45. Just throwing that info out there in case it gets discussed with your vet.

I am very lucky to have the Wisconsin Veterinary Teaching Hospital as my primary veterinarians and they will do a complete necropsy at no charge if the animal is one of their patients.

Granted I have to wait up to two months for the results of the histopathology testing it is worth it to have it done here.

So if I read correctly if we do a necropsy with Val/sugar group, Is it possible to have the glider cremated and remains sent back? At owner's expense of course?

No...unless something has changed, you will not get the body back from if you send to The SUGAR Group. If you have your vet harvest organs and send them to Val, you can get the body back from your vet, but I think that's the only way.

I believe the reason you can not get the body back is because they use preserving fluids on the animals/organs.

Actually, we are working on a new procedure with our lab and Critter Camp here in Amarillo that WILL allow for this to happen. In fact, we are running our first test case right now. If all goes as planned, then this is a service we WILL be able to offer - at an extra cost. And, I will be honest, it is not a small cost.

Look for an announcement from us once we get some answers and a procedure worked out. We are dealing with two large networks and our organization, so things don't move quickly, but we ARE working on it.

This is great news, Val! Anxious to hear how the test case works and if this will be made available to those that want it.

Val, the University where I get mine done will send the body off for you, to be cremated and the ashes returned. And you are so right it does cost a lot. But it also costs a lot from the vet hospital.