A bit of a concern re: facial abscesses

Many of you know that I have 5 gliders in my home that live with recurrent facial abscesses. Unfortunately, facial abscesses are one of those things that we can't find the cure for nor the cause for, and some gliders get them over and over and over in their life.

The 5 gliders that struggle with facial abscesses in my home are:
Cheddar - 20+ abscesses thus far
Cinnamon - 7 abscesses thus far
Dixon - 5 abscesses thus far
Diesel - 5 abscesses thus far
Gummy Bear - 2 abscesses thus far

I have also had two other gliders who struggled with repeated abscesses, but they have passed away. I lay all of this out just to show that I have extensive experience with facial abscesses. Cinnamon, Diesel and Dixon are here in my home BECAUSE of my experience with facial abscesses. All of these gliders will be staying for the remainder of their lives.

Now, to my concern:

I have always been one to say that I did not think that feeding hard foods (pellets, kibble, whatever) would cause an abscess. In fact, I stated in a thread on GC on 10/27/09 (so almost 2 years ago) the following:

Quote :

I always discourage people from feeding pellets or cat food as their PRIMARY protein source or staple food because 1) They are lacking in balanced nutrients and 2) They pose such a high risk for aflatoxin poisoning.

However, I do NOT tell people that they will cause broken teeth, scratched gums which lead to abscess or choking. A Glider's teeth are made to tear through tree bark to get to insects and sap. Therefore, they are more than capable of eating a hard piece of food from time to time with NO problems.

Has anyone ever had a healthy glider have a tooth issue solely from eating a piece of hard food?

I feed my gliders a few pieces of cat food or of happy glider pellets 2X per week and have been doing so for years. They LOVE it. I do this IN ADDITION TO their balanced diet, not in place of. I have a lot of gliders here in my home - and the number of gliders that have passed through my rescue home in the time that I have been feeding hard foods brings that number to well over 150 gliders. I have not had one single issue from feeding hard foods. Not ONE. And, I have gliders here who routinely experience periodontal disease/issues and even they never have any issues with the hard foods.

Personally, I think that we should discourage people from feeding them as a staple or as a primary protein source for the reasons listed above, but NOT because "they cause tooth injury." Do they really? I would think that if that were true, odds are I would have seen it here.

In the treatment of facial abscesses here, I have been feeling really confident as I went 9-10 months without a single abscess in any of the gliders. That has changed in the last 5 months.

In the last 5 months, I have had two gliders (Dixon and Cinnamon) experience a total of 5 abscesses. The alarming part is that EACH of these 5 abscesses has occurred within 24 hours of me feeding their hard foods (high quality dog kibble).
Now, once I would blow off as coincidence. Twice as suspicious, but maybe coincidence if it was a different glider. But, Cinnamon has had 3 and Dixon has had 2 and in 3 of these instances, I wake the morning after feeding the hard kibble to find massive abscesses. The other two I found the evening after I fed the kibble when I did their evening checks.

FIVE abscesses right after feeding the hard food. That can't be coincidence!

Here are other similarities:
* Both Cinnamon and Dixon have had tooth involvement found in x-rays only ONCE. I suspect that there is tooth involvement every time, but can't prove it as it is not seen in the x-rays.

* Gummy Bear and Diesel have never had tooth involvement found with their abscesses - they have always been soft tissue abscesses (and they have never gotten an abscess right after being fed hard foods).

* ALL FIVE of these abscesses have been on the chin - under the jaw. Never near the eye, forehead or upper jaw. Always the chin.

* ALL of the abscesses have been cultured. These gliders have always seen a vet. Dixon has had one tooth pulled in the past. Dixon's cultures always come back with the same bacteria. Cinnamon's are always a different bacteria (no consistency there).

* Prior to 5 months ago, both of these gliders ate hard foods and there was no coorelation to their facial abscess episodes.


SOOOOOOO, I will have to say that I am changing my thinking on this. I am now thinking that for gliders with known dental abscesses, maybe the hard foods are not such a great idea???? I don't know the answer. I have filled out the SUGAR group survey for each of these episodes and hopefully we will one day find answers.

Could there be a relationship between feeding hard foods and dental abscesses for those gliders who are predisposed to dental abscesses/periodontal disease?

Interesting to know and I'd like to hear the average outcome of the surveys. I've often wondered if by me blending a lot of their fruits/veggies together (to get my picky eaters to eat them) if this would cause them to have dental issues. Therefore I give them premium cat food or Euc pellets to let them have something to scrape on. Please post the average findings.

Could these gliders harbor bacteria or even a virus that only flares up with a minor abrasion or scratch to the gums as might occur with the hard foods?

I am thinking along the lines of someone that has frequent cold sores that flare up with the slightest irritation such as chapped lips due to weather conditions or a fever.

Have you ever had a mouth culture done on these gliders after an abscess appears completely healed?

Anything is possible.
We have done 9 cultures on glider mouths with no active abscess. None of them have ever come back with anything. I have also cultured the cages and bedding. Nothing.

of the gliders who have had abscesses, are they related? could it be a genetic thing?

None are related. All are rescues of various ages. Cinnamon and Diesel live together, though, so I guess they are related by marriage.

I am very interested in any results you get. I also wondered if it wasn't something already present or that these particular gliders are prone to and if they just happen to scratch or hurt their mouths (as I often do with doritos and too hot pizza!) and that causes the flare up.

Usha77 wrote:

I also wondered if it wasn't something already present or that these particular gliders are prone to and if they just happen to scratch or hurt their mouths.

When you say that a Glider is "prone to" abscesses, does that mean it could be hereditary?

Who knows...whether genetics or environment or just something in their particular make up.

Have their protein levels been checked? Kidneys and liver? The only reason I ask is because in dogs, amyloidosis can present as abscesses. It is a deficiency in the way the body processes and folds specific proteins. It can present in many different ways (but will usually show on a liver panel).

Here's something else to look at:

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/toc_23100.htm

It's the Merck Veterinary Manual- online and completely free. That's the section on mouth diseases of small animals.

It looks like most small animals can contract a strain of herpes virus. Does it look like a cold sore? Where exactly is it presenting? Pictures?

Kelly
Several of these gliders have been with me for years. One of them (Cheddar) has a whole host of medical issues.
They have all had every test under the sun. Cheddar is the only one to have any abnormal bloodwork.

As I stated in my original post, these 5 abscesses are under the chin (this is not true of every abscess. I am specifically speaking only of these 5). They all present like typical glider facial abscesses - large (actually VERY large in these cases) lumps full of a thick mucous-y pus. Kinda like this, only much larger and under the chin instead of on the cheek

I also wonder if it comes from overbreeding, we bought three from pocket pets, one died from abscess, another has one now , third one seems healthy