Dayana's Wound

Administrator's note:
[Due to the two different issues being discussed in the original thread, I am splitting the thread into two. THIS ONE will be only about Dayana's wound and healing process. In splitting, I will have to take portions of posts, so I will be sure to indicate who is quoted. ]


Original post by Julie/LabNGliderMom

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WARNING - GRAPHIC PHOTOS OF SURGICAL PROCEDURE IN THIS ALBUM! BEWARE SUGAR GLIDER OWNERS - UNSAFE CHAIN!!

https://s789.photobucket.com/albums/yy174/hammockhavengliders/Scout%20and%20Gracie%20and%20Soluna%20and%20Dayana/Dayanas%20Injury/

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Posted by Val/Something_To_Believe_In

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Julie
I am truly sorry that this happened to Dayana. I know the worry that one goes through with issues such as this and I'm praying a quick recovery for your little one. Thank you for sharing the story with us.

It is much more likely that a cage mate punctured her with a nail or there was a bug bite. Or, it looks like this issue might have started around the neck, in an area where mating wounds occur. This is also a likely cause. Even more likely is that this really looks to me like a ruptured abscess. I have seen many such abscesses and this is what I am reminded of. I am most reminded of Melissa's glider who recently had that HUGE abscess on her chest/belly.



Not for nothing, but there is also the possibility that she is not SMing and that her cage mates did this to her. Either way, it is encouraging that the damage is regulated to her skin and that there does not seem to be damage to organs as well.

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On a different note, I am interested by the treatment plan here, specifically the use of the staples and the gauze. These are unconventional for use in gliders, so can you share with us what your vet's thoughts were in using these materials in this manner?

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I have to agree agree with Val. Unfortunately, like Val, I've seen more abscesses than I care to remember, and this wound does resemble what I've seen. It's hard to describe, but it's just a certain "look" to the tissue that makes me think abscess.

In looking at the pictures, I see that staples were used to close the wound. Please keep a very close eye on that as staples can come with their own issues. Also, is that gauze attached to the site or was it just there for the photo? Covering wounds can cause moisture to be retained and cause a secondary infection and prolong healing. You've got your hands full with her now, and I don't want anything to impede her recovery.

It's always hard on the owner to see their pet hurt. I wish someone would invent a magic wand we can use to take away their pain and make them better immediately.

I, too, am sorry that you and your baby are going through this. I was thinking mating wound or muscle injury, but it really could be from an abscess or other possiblities as well. My vet won't use staples either, there is too high of risk of skin irritation, which raises the risks of her trying to go after the site during healing. also would be worried about her trying to chew the gauze and risking it being entangled in her mouth or possibly getting caught in her throat, although I am sure your vet did remove it before leaving the office. I just wanted to put that out there in case others ever experience surgery and want them to know it is not common or really safe. I really hope she pulls through quickly and am so sorry this happened to her.


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Posted by Julie/ LabNGliderMom

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As for my vet's decisions, after debreiding the edges and cleaning them up, he did internal stitches, external staples, and then topped the whole mess with glue and silvadine ointment. He then literally GLUED the gauze into place and I burrito wrapped her, they gave her metacam, and I carried her home and on my person for the remainder of the day. Why? Because it was what he felt was best for her in this case. He said he'd have glued on kevlar if he could have, to be honest, because the moisture issue for a few days (if it lasted that long which it did not and which we knew probably wouldn't) was less worrisome than having something "else" for her to go after other than her own flesh. He also decided that an e-collar would irritate the neck wound and that an e-jacket would irritate the patagia and the chest area wound and would hold the moisture more than the breathable gauze. Once we realized the extent of the damage she had done in approximately 4-5 hours, we knew it was unlikely that she would make it - in fact, we were both shocked that she was still alive to be honest. She is far from out of the woods, but I trust my vet to do what is in her best interest and we both know there may be some tough decisions in the next several hours/days where Dayana is concerned.

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Posted by Brenda / BCChins

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Wow

I am sorry Dayana is going though this. I am hoping for all to go well for her. Get well soon little one.

I am also agreeing with the above mention of a big risk with staples and gluing gauze onto the wound. I would think teeth and nail's would definatly be able to get stuck in them. Then you would have bigger problems. Guess your vet vet knows best but I would never let mine do it that way.
You stated she once had a wound in this area?? How long ago?

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Posted by Val/Something_To_Believe_In

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And, yes, Julie, you are reading into it. I imagine you are tired and are feeling a little defensive, so allow me to be very clear about the point we are making.
OUR point (since this board relys on fact and not speculation) is that there are other possible causes for this injury. You don't agree that this could have been an abscess, but those of us who have seen them repeatedly want to be sure that future owners know the possibility. Here on TSS, we will put out the more likely scenerios so that when someone else comes along later with a similar injury, they will know to not start blaming toy parts or vendors and to look at the things that are more likely first - things such as abscess, injury by cage mate, etc. Unless you have already made up your mind about how this happened, why wouldn't you explore all other possibilities just as eagerly?

We also want to be sure that people, in the future, are aware of the concerns that we have about the treatment protocol used on this glider. Personally, I'm fascinated and eager to find out how this plays out for Dayana. Perhaps our fears about staples and gluing items to the glider's body are unfounded? I'm interested to find out and to have that information for future glider owners.

That is all we are saying. This is a teaching board. We don't teach just one guess as to how things happen. This thread is NOT ABOUT YOU OR DAVIE it is about Dayana and the speculation as to what could have caused the injury. It was not presented as such in your original post, so, yes, people got upset. I'll admit, *I* am upset that Davie's name had to be used at all and I KNOW that she would have preferred it otherwise. But, that is a point for a whole different thread. This one is about a wound.
Julie, please continue to update us on Dayana's condition. We are all pulling for her.

I also want to reiterate that the reason I have cautioned about the staples and gauze use that it has the potential for causing more problems. What a vet does in a particular case is up to the vet and owner, but I would not recommend staples be used in gliders, nor would I recommend gluing gauze to any wound. I just want to prevent any owner from reading about this case and thinking it's the normal protocol.



I want to add one last note after reading the other posts. As Val said, the purpose of this board is to teach and provide health information. It is different from the other boards. No one is being "hostile" in any of their posts. We are sharing our opinions based on our experiences. When it comes to helping animals, I don't really care who the owner is...it's about the animal. Some owners will actively seek help, but for every one who calls there are several more who simply read. They read these posts to try to gain knowledge. That is why other scenarios are being stated. Yes, if this post (as written) helps just one glider that's good. BUT, what if this post (as written) causes 10 owners to overlook a cause because it was assumed that the cause was known.

She's pulling the staples, which we knew she might do :-( The top part of the wound is pretty raw and the whole thing looks kind of icky. My vet wants me to stay the course for the moment. I'm trying to keep her calm and give her the pain meds... the more she sleeps the less she messes with it. At least she isn't ripping into the flesh or her stitches.

These are pics from today. Some are very graphic but way less so than yesterday:

https://s789.photobucket.com/albums/yy174/hammockhavengliders/Scout%20and%20Gracie%20and%20Soluna%20and%20Dayana/Dayanas%20Injury/Dayanas%20Injury%20Day%202/

Probably won't update more until tomorrow unless something drastic changes.

Thank you for the update.

If she is starting to pull the staples, I really would suggest you tell your vet to remove them and replace with stiches and I would also suggest using Quickderm to speed up granulation and help speed up the healing process. Did she give her any antibiotics? If not, I myself would request some and keep her on a good pain regimen. I really hope she heals fast and thank you for keeping us all updated.

Back to the vet today.

She ripped open the neck/shoulder area again. They removed the staples (only 4 of the original 11 were still in anyway) and said from the chest down it looked better though wet from licking... it was the top area that was bad.

They cleaned it with Chlorhexidine, re-stitched (internally) the top part as far as they could (there is an open area so ragged they can't stitch it) and also noted that there are now fresh holes (bite marks) all around the top of the wound that were not there yesterday. <sigh>

So then 2 drops of glue on 2 small places that were being stubborn and a slathering of Silvadine ointment over the whole mess... then they switched her from Ditrim to Baytril and sent me off with some Chlorhexadine too. I am going to give the Baytril 1x a day, Metacam 1x a day or more often if needed, clean it once a day, and add Vetericyn spray after I clean it.

She is SO not impressed right now, but finally chilled out and is sleeping at the moment. We shall see where it goes from here...

WARNING: the pictures are graphic again, so don't look if you get queasy easily. This is day 3, and all 3 days are documented including surgical photos.

https://s789.photobucket.com/albums/yy174/hammockhavengliders/Scout%20and%20Gracie%20and%20Soluna%20and%20Dayana/Dayanas%20Injury/Dayanas%20Injury%20Day%203/

Do you have her in a small cage with no wheel? If not, I'd recommend it. The top part of that wound endures a lot of stretching when the glider is jumping, running and climbing. Reps work good for hospital cages (if the glider isn't a chewer) because you can give more floor space and reduce the height so they don't climb as much. You can also put a pouch on the ground so she doesn't have to pull herself up out of the pouch. I have a couple of clam shell beds that I use. Also, did you discuss using QuickDerm on the top area? I think it would help. The epidermis is very thin and difficult to stitch. Often times. they have to remove quite a bit of tissue to get to a healthy margin for suturing. The chest area looks much better.

Dayana crossed the bridge this morning, in my hands. She fought really hard for several days but opened herself up again AND the wound got necrotic. The vet and I made the decision that she deserved better and we let her go peacefully. I miss her very much and am not up to discussing it further or posting the pictures from last night/this morning yet. Love you Day-Day...

I'm very sorry for your loss.
She fought hard and was loved to the end.
Thank you for allowing us to learn from your story.

So sorry, glide free, Dayana. :(

I'm sorry.

I am sorry for your loss of Dayana.

Sorry Julia and Peggy.
Art

I'm sorry for your loss