Ivey's medical condition.

I am so sorry Val that I have posted this everywhere but here! Which is where it should have been in the first place. Hopefully we can learn alot from What is going on with Ivey once we figure out WHAT is going on with her. But here is her story with pics AND first report.


Posted March 22nd 2011 on LGG at 12:31 am



Last Thursday Ivey went to the doctor for a reoccurring pouch infection and mysterious lumps on her chest. The vet exasperated the larger lump and got 1ml of fluid out of it and had it sent off for testing. We are still waiting on the test to come back to figure out what our next step is. Given the fact that she hasnt lost any more weight, but hasnt gained any either she is doing well and seems to be bothered at all by these lumps. Her appetite is good, her ears are perky and her eyes are still bright and she is still pretty active considering she is not a spring chicken any more.

Kudzu nor Ivey has drawn any attention to the lumps and seem to pay them no mind, which is a good thing since I really do not want to seperate the 2 if at all possible.

Ivey will be going back to the vet again in the morning to see about having them drained again and hopefully when I pick her back up in the afternoon my vet would have heard something from the sample that was sent off for testing.

Here is Ivey and her lumps. Doesnt she have the sweetest face in the world?








Posted at 10:49am March 22nd 2011

Took her back in this morning cause I'm afraid if they burst I may be looking at other problems. So I was hoping that they could drain them again. But my vet is uneasy about putting her under to drain them again till they get the results back. My vet is hoping that they get the results back either today or tomorrow and if they dont come in tomorrow then she is going to call them. She doesnt feel that Ivey is in any danger at the moment and is very pleased with her appetite, curiousness and being so alert.

On the plus side the sample that my vet still has hasn't changed any. It hasn't clotted, discolored or grew any funkiness. We're still just playing the waiting game.


Today this is what else I have found out.

Got the results back and they are inconclusive. She goes for surgery on Monday to remove the lumps and send those off for a histopath. I never read so many big words and my vet had never had a report come back with as much going on in it as Iveys. Here is the report. If anyone can make any sense of it I would really appreciate it. All I understood from my vet is that there are cells that indicate the possiblity of cancer.

We had the option of surgery tomorrow or Monday. And since my vet was going out of town Sunday she felt uncomfortable leaving me alone for that day in case SOMETHING were to come up with Ivey.

We decided to go with Monday because my vet can babysit all week there at the office while I am at work during the day.

We also decided that an e jacket may be the better way to go instead of an e collar. Ivey's mate Kudzu stresses very easily the way it is and he got stressed enough to overgroom while Ivey was at the vet office. So an e jacket would possibly mean that the 2 love birds can stay together while she is recovering.

Sherri
When you say surgery, do you mean a biopsy of the lump(s)?

We (the SUGAR Group) are in possessio of several necropsy reports showing epitheliel hyperplasia as a contributing factor, so I am very interested to see what comes of this.

Ivey has a lump on both sides of her chest (pretty obvious). But the lump on her right side (the one she has had the longest) had a soft lump with a hard lump piggy backing the soft one. According to my vet, the surgery will remove the hard lump, some of the soft lump on both sides and some tissue around the larger lump. At least thats the way I understood it.

Then she will send all that off and we play the waiting game all over again.

Something_To_Believe_In wrote:

epitheliel hyperplasia

What is that? I have no idea what her report say's. The only thing I understood my vet say was that the cells are/could be cancerous. My mind has been so discombobulated lately with worrying that I am having a hard time wrapping my brain around what is really going on with Ivey. Denial maybe? Possibly...

My simple explanation is that it means that cells have started growing abnormally. It is usually found in the lining surrounding an organ and is often cancerous.

Thank you for sharing your reports here. Please also email them to the SUGAR Group at sugargroup@hotmail.com.

I do know that several gliders have had large tumors removed and done just fine. Kate has this experience. So, know that you are in good company and that others have been there before you.

I know others have been there before me and will be after. My main issue is that no one that has had this issue is offering any feedback what so ever in what they did, how long it took, what meds to be on, yada yada yada.......So it's a little frustrating when I know there are alot of people that have dealt with this kind of thing and I'm sitting here in the dark.

I'll send the report to the Sugar Group and any other reports I get. Thank you Val.

I'm sorry that you aren't hearing much from others.

I do know that Kate used Quickderm on her little one that had the large tumor removed. She is on the way to the vet today with some gliders, but said that she would pop on here when she gets back and tell you about what her glider went through and what her experience was.

Hang in there. You are doing all you can for your little one. At least one with experience is on her way to share with you.

I'm glad that I just got my quickderm in the other day that I ordered. I also have a pretty complete e kit, not as complete as yours I'm sure. LOL

I have also got 2 medium and 2 small e jackets that will be here tomorrow.

Tell Kate if you hear from her before she has time to post that I would really appreciate it.

Hey Sherri. I just did a quick read of your post here. I'd have to pull Yokio's records for pathology info, but let me tell you some general info. I'll also get some pics up when I can.

Yokio had a slow growing tumor/cyst in his chest. The vet and I had decided to do nothing unless changes were seen. Yokio was eating well, active and overall great. The only problem was that the size of the mass on his chest made it difficult for him to hold food with that hand. It was red and balding, mostly due to friction as he moved. Last January, his cage mate caused an injury to the underside of his neck. This was before I had heard of QuickDerm. Non-invasive topical treatments didn't work and the weight of the chest mass was stretching the skin causing the neck wound to reopen. We began to discuss surgery. This cyst was soft and not completely connected to the underlying tissue and my vet felt she would be able to remove it. Of course, surgery is risky, but it was our only option. Aside from the open neck wound, I was concerned that the cyst would burst and Yokio would suffer and possibly die. Surgery went very well. She was able to remove the mass and close the neck wound. The difficulty was in the healing phase. We were unable to use an ecollar because of the neck wound. We tried a jacket. The thinking was that it would keep the area protected from irritation from rubbing on the cage. It would also give him a chance to remain with his cage mate. Yokio tolerated the jacket fine, but the problem is that it held moisture in and we had numerous problems with reinfection. Yokio had to undergo multiple surgeries due to this reinfection. The wound has to be able to be kept dry for healing, as well as protected from irritation. It was at this point the QuickDerm was first used. We had a good start at healing in about 3 days and it was all good from there.

Some considerations:

With Yokio, the incision was vertical so there was some pull when he would extend his patagium or reach for something. I don't know if your vet will have any options for incision direction, but keep in mind the glider's movements and how that could affect healing.

Remove any hard toys or branches from the cage during healing. I used a lot of hammocks, fleece bridges and some ferret toys (like the ark or tepee). I also took out his wheel for awhile. Be sure there are no rough spots or sharp edges she can rub against that could reinjure the area.

If Ivy is prone to chest rubbing, you'll have to be very careful about cage cleaning during healing. This part can be tricky because you have to keep the cage clean but you can't remove all items at once or the glider may decide to remark and chest rub on the cage. That can cause reinjury.

I kept Yokio on me a lot. Luckily, he is content to be cuddled. He would sit with me while his cage mate had out of cage playtime. When he was off me, I kept him from doing much jumping.

As the incision areas heal, you may see excess scabbing/granulation tissue. It may be necessary to gently clean the area on occasion. Talk to your vet about that.

If I had to do this again, I would not use the jacket. In my/Yokio's case, it caused more problems than it helped. If you do use the jacket, be sure to remove it at least once a day to allow the area to "breathe". I do try to keep cage mates together during healing because it reduces stress which promotes quicker healing. It'll be up to you to decide if you're able to do that for Ivy. If her cage mate tries to groom it or seems over interested in the area, you'll have to separate. Again, that'll be your decision based on what you're seeing.

One "good" thing about the incision being high on the chest is that you can use a more narrow collar so the glider isn't as restricted in movement. I work during the week, but am usually able to answer my cell after 6pm. If you need me, call. (772)559-6486

THANK YOU SO MUCH KATE!!!

That is EXACTLY the kind of feedback I was looking for! Someone who had been there and what they did or didn't do or would have done differently. That helps me so much, you just don't know.

The scariest part of Ivey's lumps is that they were not slow forming, they were quick AND they filled back up very fast after draining them the first time to be able to get the first test done.

My glider records are still in the car from my vet visit, so I'll have to look up the pathology tomorrow. We never drained it. The pics I have are pretty graphic, so I didn't post them. I have to go searching for other photos. If you do want to see those, Sherri, I can email them to you. When the cyst was sliced open, there was a small section of white tissue visible in the center, but not as much fluid as I thought. This was just over a year ago, and there's been no regrowth so far and he's doing fantastic.

I am trying to be so optimistic, but it gets hard when at the same time you want to prepare for the worst so it wont be so much of a shock. And I also have her mate to worry about and her age. Part of me wants to be there to watch the surgery and take pictures for futher recources. But another part of me doesnt want to see how bad it "could" be.

I'm choosing door #3! The one that is bacterial or fungal and not door #1 or #2 that are those nasty c words!

Maybe you could give your camera to your vet and ask her to have a tech take photos during the surgery. Then, when you are ready, you have them on your camera. That way, you don't have to stress yourself about it now, and you won't have any regrets later.

Probably what I'm going to do. I gotta feeling that I am not going to want to be in there to watch.

I burst into tears earlier tonight when I took the e jacket off of Ivey. She had another lump (maybe2) appear. This/these are in her pouch. I was besides myself worrying what to do and if I can even handle this anymore. Thank you so much Peggy for letting me get it all out and giving me the strength to continue on. I was at the point of giving up.

So tomorrow morning she will have surgery and probably get samples from one on her chest and one in her pouch. I am a complete mess and have a big day at work tomorrow that I'm not going to be able to concentrate for. If at all possible I'm going to try to be able to be at the vets office as much as I can. Luckily the vet is less than 1/2 a mile away from my work so that helps.

I don't know how much more Ivey can take. I know I'm at my breaking point myself.





In the last picture Ivey bit Kudzu's tail and hung on while he drug her around the bath tub. I think she was mad at him that he didn't try hard enough to get the e jacket off.

Oh Sherri.
I'm praying for you both.

And she is STILL acting normally. So weird! My little girl is definately a fighter.

She is doing fine. She ate some yogies after she woke up and went to cuddling with Kudzu. We didnt put her in an e jacket or e collar yet since she hasnt been messing with them. They took biopsy's of the lumps on her chest and a swab for a C&S on her pouch. I'll come back to fill in the rest after I get done uploading the pics. But she is doing well....me on the other hand just has to much rambling around in my head to put it all down sensibly. I'll be back in a few.

Ok, of course my vet couldn't tell me WHAT is going on yet till the biopsy's come back but I will tell you what she did say.

She said the larger hard spot on her chest basically just popped right out. The smaller hard spot on the other side was pretty easy as well though not as big. There was no bleeding (good), no puss (also good) and when she looked at some fluid and tissue under her dlide she said that though there is alot of cels in there none of them looked like nasty cells. Yes they were abnormal but not by any means what nasty cancer cells normaly look like. She's still not ruling it out completely but did say that she's hoping more for bacterial. She also drained another ml of fluid from the ones on her chest. Which she is hoping theydon't fill back up since it could cause the biopsy wounds to keep opening. Something we will have to watch closely.

Now on to her pouch....

The lump right about the opening she said looked more like an abcess than anything and she tried to get fluid out of it but nothing came out. She swabbed the inside of her pouch for a C&S. The inside of her pouch itself sis not look like an infection and that worries her some. The inside of her pouch has become very tough and inflamed. But there was very little fluid and no debri like the first time I took her in for the pouch infection about a month ago or so. I love her for her descriptions....she said it looked all narly. That can't be good.

Ivey is on an antibiotic 2x a day and a pain med once a day. My vet will babysit the next few days at the office to make sure that everything is going well and neither one are messing with the sites.

Here are some pics that my vet took for me today.

Before







After........

Thank you for such a descriptive update, Sherri. I think we are all on pins-and-needles waiting for the biopsy results.

Well Ivey definately has everyone baffled. My vet just can't get over how curious and active and unbothered by this whole thing Ivey is.

Ok, they are up and they are not happy to be in the hospital cage. Kudzu misses his wheel and he doesnt like the fact that this is not his cage and the room doesnt smell the same and the neighbors a couple of feet away do not smell or sound like his neighbors.

At first I put the hospital cage to close to Stuart and LJ's cage but Kudzu let me know real quick that was too close for his liking, ok move them back another couple of feet and he is better.

Onto Ivey, I gave her first dose of meds and she licked it right up. No forcing it, but then again it does taste like rasberries. Her pain mdes are pretty strong and I won't need to give her some till in the morning or afternoon depending on how she is doing. Her site's look pretty good and didnt look like they had really been messed with. The larger one is deeper so I think that one will take longer to heal.

I will be thinking about you all, nice and snuggled up in your beds while I watch these 2 like hawks! LOL

Thank you for the update. You are all doing a good job. Gliders for not messing with things and being good and Momma for watching over them and doing all you can. Waiting is the hard part. We are here when you need us.

Ivey made it through the night just fine with out an e jacket or an e collar. Her and Kudzu have not touched any of the biopsy sites. I am overwhelmed at the lack of attention they have shown anything that has gone on with Ivey. They are such a special pair to me and have given me a renewed sense of strength that Ivey will be just fine!


If I didn't know Kudzu and Ivey as well as I do I would never have attempted this with out an e collar or an e jacket. I know I was taking a huge risk last night not putting her in one or the other, but also felt that since neither one had done anything to her pouch infection OR the lumps prior too the biopsy, I didnt feel they would after. Plus they have a watchful eye on them 24/7. At any interest shown to the sites she will be collared or jacketed!