Quarantine & Stress

I'm new here, so please tell me if I'm posting in the wrong area!

I've already posted a few threads about my issues with possible mis-diagnosis of roundworms/hookworms over at GliderGossip, but thought I'd try and post here as well. I'll go ahead and link to my other threads I made on GG as to avoid repeating myself for those who may have already seen. Hopefully this isn't against the rules! I did read them and didn't notice anything about it; though I am exhausted and may have missed it.

http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29593
http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29599

I already spoke with Val on the phone earlier, and I have moved my gliders to a smaller cage as advised. I made sure to bleach and clean it thoroughly beforehand, just in case. I also made sure to sterilize the water bottle and wheel I put in with them beforehand as well.

They seem to be fighting (though not excessively) and trying to mount each other to assert their dominance (they are all female), and they also seem to be heavily scent marking the cage already. I'm assuming I shouldn't be worried about this? Should I be worried about stressing them out from being in quarantine? I intended to keep them in this smaller cage and thoroughly sterilize it and its contents daily until I get something figured out (whether or not they for certain have parasites, and if so until I know that the problem is taken care of).

What about tent time out of the cage? I was planning to stick them in there for a bit later on when it gets closer to 8AM, as I need to collect stool samples to take to the vet. I'm getting a 2nd opinion and having another centrifugation done.

I won't be sleeping at all tonight, as I need to collect their samples and be able to get to the vet on time. It would be impossible for me to go to bed now and wake up in just a few hours, so I have to pull an all-nighter.

If you do put them in the tent and find that there are parasites, you will need to thoroughly sterilize that as well. Good luck and I hope the vet has some answers for you.

So, I only read part of the first link provided. Are you treating the parasites that were "maybe" diagnosed at all??...Because if you have, then a second opinion will be moot for at least 21 days after that last day of treatment...

Let me grab you some links from here on parasite treatment protocol...
https://thesweetspot.forumotion.net/parasites-giardia-coccidia-etc-f12/proper-protocol-to-effectively-treat-a-parasite-infestation-t295.htm

Chris R wrote:

So, I only read part of the first link provided. Are you treating the parasites that were "maybe" diagnosed at all??...Because if you have, then a second opinion will be moot for at least 21 days after that last day of treatment...

Let me grab you some links from here on parasite treatment protocol...
https://thesweetspot.forumotion.net/parasites-giardia-coccidia-etc-f12/proper-protocol-to-effectively-treat-a-parasite-infestation-t295.htm

I asked at the veterinary place I went for a 2nd opinion if it would matter that they're on Panacur, and they said it shouldn't change the test results? Why would being on Panacur medicine matter if the eggs are pretty much bomb proof? I've already bookmarked and read over your thread by the way.

If they lied to me about the Panacur effecting the tests, I'm probably going to be panicking even more over this. I paid $35 for that 2nd opinion (results should be in tomorrow), and I'm nearly broke. I have no income, and I'm a college student.

I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself but I'm very distressed over this. I've barely eaten anything the past 3 days and I'm a wreck. My grades are likely going to slip because I haven't had time to do my homework with worrying about all of this sterilizing. Not to mention I discovered bleach does not kill the eggs, and the only thing that will effectively destroy them is extreme heat.

4. 3 weeks to a month after the 2nd drug regimen/treatment is when a 2nd fecal is called for. Any fecals done before this can and will possibly result in a false negative test result as fecals require eggs being produced by adult parasites in a significant number to show positive. If 2nd fecal shows negative (clear) the daily cleaning/sterilization ends but this 2nd fecal if negative does not mean you are parasite free, not until you have had 2 negative fecals 3 weeks apart AND with the first negative 3 weeks after last day of drug treatment are you "all clear"



Having a case of parasites is NOT the end of the world. Yes it takes treatment and cleaning protocols to be rid of them but they most certainly are not the end of the world. Almost everyone here has had to deal with some sort of parasite problem in their animals at some point in time (95% of all kittens and puppies have some sort of parasite etc). Take a deep breath and just take it one step at a time :)

Chris R wrote:

4. 3 weeks to a month after the 2nd drug regimen/treatment is when a 2nd fecal is called for. Any fecals done before this can and will possibly result in a false negative test result as fecals require eggs being produced by adult parasites in a significant number to show positive. If 2nd fecal shows negative (clear) the daily cleaning/sterilization ends but this 2nd fecal if negative does not mean you are parasite free, not until you have had 2 negative fecals 3 weeks apart AND with the first negative 3 weeks after last day of drug treatment are you "all clear"



Having a case of parasites is NOT the end of the world. Yes it takes treatment and cleaning protocols to be rid of them but they most certainly are not the end of the world. Almost everyone here has had to deal with some sort of parasite problem in their animals at some point in time (95% of all kittens and puppies have some sort of parasite etc). Take a deep breath and just take it one step at a time :)

You think it might result in a false negative even though I was collecting stool for the test on just the 2nd day of treatment with the Panacur? I would imagine there would still be eggs in there, especially since they don't poo very much. If the Panacur kills off the live parasites and causes them to pass the worms, wouldn't they be able to notice those in their stool as well? My vet said they were "heavily infested" with them, even though he only had one tiny smear of a single dropping for a fecal sample to use for the test (and not a single one has shown a single symptom of parasites). I had even said I would rather wait to be able to collect stool samples from all of them for a proper test, yet he went and ran it anyway and charged me for it, saying "We'll just run this one now and see what it says."

I did want to send a note with the samples to the lab for the 2nd vet that I'm getting the 2nd opinion from. I wanted to let them know that they were already on Panacur, and that they had bee pollen in their diet. The vet tech wouldn't let me though, she said that neither of those should matter and the lab will be able to tell the difference between bee pollen and worms.

I don't think I can keep up with the daily sterilization if they actually have worms though, not on top of all my college work. Not unless I can get my hands on a steamer cleaner, the cheapest of which I found is $50. That will pretty much wipe out the rest of my financial aid money, then I'll be broke and I'm not sure how I'll pay for another fecal test in a month. I don't think I can leave them in that tiny cage for a month either; I mean there's 3 of them in there after all.

I'm sorry if I sound like all I'm doing is complaining, but for someone with a major phobia of parasites and lack of resources to properly deal with the problem, it feels like the end of the world.

Just want to pop in and say that my first gliders came to me with Giardia, my third came with Roundworms. I won't lie, it was stressful, the bleaching, the cleaning. (The worrying) But after the normal disinfecting protocol, they were gone and never came back. I've been enjoying my gliders ever since.

So it's not the end of the world but I do feel your stress. Just didn't want you to give up that easily because they are worth saving and if you can just get past this small window, you too can have years of enjoying your gliders. In the big picture, this time really is just a small window.

BindiAndScrubbie wrote:

Just want to pop in and say that my first gliders came to me with Giardia, my third came with Roundworms. I won't lie, it was stressful, the bleaching, the cleaning. (The worrying) But after the normal disinfecting protocol, they were gone and never came back. I've been enjoying my gliders ever since.

So it's not the end of the world but I do feel your stress. Just didn't want you to give up that easily because they are worth saving and if you can just get past this small window, you too can have years of enjoying your gliders. In the big picture, this time really is just a small window.

Did your gliders show any symptoms of being ill or having worms? I'm just wondering, since mine have honestly not shown a single symptom, and they've acted the same as always the past 2 years I've had them. When Ryoko and Ayeka were diagnosed as having worms of the "not sure" variety in 2008, all that I did was give them the medicine prescribed by the vet. No cage cleaning or sterilizing (I didn't know at the time). They've still never displayed any symptoms of worms at all. I'm thinking this vet I had been going to doesn't know his stuff, or they're just trying to get money out of me. All of the signs are pointing in that direction. In fact, this new vet I called that I had never even seen, returned my call within the same day and stayed on the phone to talk to me and try to research and answer all of my questions. My vet that I had been seeing, I called 3-4 days ago and he still has not returned my call.

I just got the results back from this new vet I'm going to continue seeing from now on (because he actually shows that he cares and I don't feel rushed talking to him). The test results came back negative for everything. I even asked several times if being on the Panacur would sway the rest results and possible cause a false negative, and they said it shouldn't. I asked if I should continue sterilizing the cage daily, and they said I shouldn't need to, because there were no signs of eggs, or the live parasites being passed in their stool.

Oh and also; I'm sorry if I sound rude, I really do appreciate all of the support that everyone is giving me! I'm just trying to get the facts straight since everyone is telling me different things.

The giardia, yes. Very symptomatic signs. The roundworms, no. No signs to speak of, just showed up on her initial well visit fecal.

Sorry if I repeated anything here, I honestly didn't read your other posts on GG but....are your gliders on HPW? If your vet isn't familiar with the way bee pollen looks under the scope, he/she could very well mistake it for a type of roundworm as it looks very similar. My vet actually showed me my glider's bee pollen under the scope. Told me of the similarities between that and roundworm.

BindiAndScrubbie wrote:

The giardia, yes. Very symptomatic signs. The roundworms, no. No signs to speak of, just showed up on her initial well visit fecal.

Sorry if I repeated anything here, I honestly didn't read your other posts on GG but....are your gliders on HPW? If your vet isn't familiar with the way bee pollen looks under the scope, he/she could very well mistake it for a type of roundworm as it looks very similar. My vet actually showed me my glider's bee pollen under the scope. Told me of the similarities between that and roundworm.

My vet that I have been going to (who I will no longer be seeing), I'm not sure if he knew. When I first took Ryoko and Ayeka for their wellness exams and fecals in 2008, I did show him the HPW recipe, which clearly shows bee pollen on the list of ingredients. He still diagnosed them as "maybe" having some kind of worms. He said it looked like they "might" have something, but he couldn't really give me a solid answer as to whether or not for sure they did, or what it might be.

I wasn't able to go in 2009 because I couldn't afford it, but when I took them all in again this past week (Ryoko, Ayeka, & Sasami) for their wellness exams and fecal floats/smears/etc, he again seemed unsure of the diagnosis. I thought he said they might have roundworms and hookworms, but he did say that they were "loaded with something". I'm thinking it may have just been bee pollen, or he's trying to weasel money out of me and keep me coming back. As I stated in the other threads, every time he's seen me he's been rushed, won't even sit down to talk to me, and makes me sit in the room alone while the fecal tests are run, when he could be performing the wellness exams. Not to mention, this time when I went, the scales were not balanced before weighing the gliders (the vet assistants/techs said it was not balanced, set it aside and said they'd mess with it later, then came back and weighed them without adjusting it). They also did not properly document Ryoko's weight. They wrote down the same weight as last time, which I know is incorrect, because I had the sheet from her previous visit and checked the weight when they told me her new weight (she has gained weight).

Also, when I went this time, he was getting ready to rush out of the room after giving me the medicine and administering the first doses to the gliders and such, but I stopped him to ask if cleaning the cages frequently would help to get rid of the worms, and all he could really say was, "It might help."

All he did during the exams was listen to their heartbeats and weigh them. I did question about Sasami's pouch and chest being discolored a slight yellow tint, which he looked at briefly, but said it was fine.

I'm pretty upset with the level of service from this vet, which is why I won't be going back. I don't need to pay $127 to have my gliders' weights recorded improperly, and feel rushed and clueless on how to properly handle parasites if they do really have them.

However, this new vet I went to for the 2nd opinion, he said he hadn't ever heard of bee pollen being mis-diagnosed as worms. He said that the lab should be able to tell the difference (they actually send out the samples to a lab that does nothing but examine fecal samples, so I imagine they're more specialized).