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WintersSong

WintersSong


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Join date : 2009-12-27
Age : 37
Location : Upstate NY

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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeSat Mar 27, 2010 7:27 pm

Chris R wrote:
Giardia and Coccidia that are the parasites that are really known to cause diarrhea and the "stinkies"...The diarrhea is more with a severe infestation. The "mucus" poo is the hosts body trying to, hmmm soothe, for lack of a better word, the irritated bowel/intestine "

So if poo looks normal (no stinkies, no diarrhea), it is unlikely that the glider has giardia and coccidia? (or, at the very least, that the parasites that cause giardia and coccidia haven't gone through the shedding cycle yet)
I ask because despite having multiple fecals done on my gliders (as in, at least 5 since having them in October), but I can't shake the feeling that they might have it.. But, there's been no signs of runny poo, or a change in scent. So am I to assume that, so long as everything continues to appear normal, I don't need to re-test until their next wellness exam (and that I am just crazily overprotected and a worrier? -- course that I already knew)?


Having got them from PPP, and upon hearing how it's apparently quite rare for gliders to leave their facilities without parasites, I can't help but worry that something will pop up, someday.
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Chris R

Chris R


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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeSat Mar 27, 2010 9:41 pm

Wintersong?...Im sorry I dont know your first name...
But yes, it is entirely feesible to have giardia without the diarrhea until a "stressor" brings down the immune system enough that the giardia takes over (kind of like a yeast infection in women, we have the "bad yeast" but it takes an antibiotic to wipe all the yeast out and the "bad yeast" is the first one to come back and "take over")...It is also very possible to have false negative for giardia in a simle fecal float. That is why I suggest having a giardia SNAP test done if you are worried about it. A giardia Snap test, tests for the enzymes that is produced by giardia and doesnt require a large "load" amount to be positive. If this test is negative then I would count myself blessed and not worry about any more random tests until their routine wellness exams are due and or they develop something else concerning requiring vet care...

I hope I answered your question :)
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WintersSong

WintersSong


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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeSat Mar 27, 2010 11:41 pm

Chris R wrote:
Wintersong?...Im sorry I dont know your first name...
But yes, it is entirely feesible to have giardia without the diarrhea until a "stressor" brings down the immune system enough that the giardia takes over (kind of like a yeast infection in women, we have the "bad yeast" but it takes an antibiotic to wipe all the yeast out and the "bad yeast" is the first one to come back and "take over")...It is also very possible to have false negative for giardia in a simle fecal float. That is why I suggest having a giardia SNAP test done if you are worried about it. A giardia Snap test, tests for the enzymes that is produced by giardia and doesnt require a large "load" amount to be positive. If this test is negative then I would count myself blessed and not worry about any more random tests until their routine wellness exams are due and or they develop something else concerning requiring vet care...

I hope I answered your question :)

My name is Sara. :)

I am, on one hand, thinking that Munch certainly underwent a BIG stressor, so it would've likely brought it out on him. He had a broken leg, was in an e-collar for weeks (due to a tendency to start self-mutilating at the time), kept in teeny tiny hospital cage, away from his mate for about 5 weeks. I am thinking he was likely more stressed than I realize.. but, his fecals have always been great. And then of course Monk, being away from Munch for that time, was likely very stressed (though by watching her at the time, you'd have a hard time believing it), too -- her fecals were also great.

On the other, I'm thinking, well they're PPP gliders. They've got it and I just don't know it. (Though the rational part of me says that there is no way that ALL of the gliders they sell are infected, just that we're more likely to hear about the sick ones)

Anyway, I always request both a fecal smear and float when I do take in samples. Have never requested the SNAP test though.

I will drop off another and request the SNAP test the next time I'm at the vets for a nail clipping. Everyone there knows my voice on the phone now... "Hi I'd like to make an appointment for..." "Hi Sara. How are Monk and Munch doing?" before I can even say who I am.
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WintersSong

WintersSong


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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeSun Mar 28, 2010 11:16 pm

Another question on Giardia.. is it true that it can only lay dormant in gliders for 6 months? This is something I've seen many times on forums, but then I have also seen that it can lay dormant for years.

If it is true that it only lays dormant for 6 months, would this mean that if my gliders are still testing negative after 6 months of having them from PPP that they do not have it (and that if they get it later, they did not get it from PPP)?
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Chris R

Chris R


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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeSun Mar 28, 2010 11:33 pm

Its not really dormant. Its just that the gliders immune system is sufficient to keep the numbers low. I dont have any real data on Giardia and gliders but in many other animals it can be that way for years before something upsets the balance and the Giardia flourishes
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WintersSong

WintersSong


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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeMon Mar 29, 2010 12:21 am

So if Monk and Munch have giardia, but it's too low in numbers to show up on a fecal smear/float (and any other methods of testing --- we will be getting the SNAP test done if my vet offers it or thinks its a good idea), should I basically not worry? And assume that if it does eventually flourish enough to show up in a year or so that it will be treatable and fix-able? (Rather than being a death sentence).

I will, of course, continue to do constant fecal checks, but I'm hoping to decrease them to every 6 months rather than every month.
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tish84

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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeMon Mar 29, 2010 12:26 am

Check with your vet on send out lab tests.....I wanted to get a full fecal and SNAP on one of my gliders and my vet went over the lab tests available, their cost and what they test for. It was actually cheaper for me to get multiple labs run with the SNAP than just the SNAP itself.
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Something_To_Believe_In
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Something_To_Believe_In


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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeMon Mar 29, 2010 11:18 pm

Personally, I would stop testing them (except for during their regularly scheduled wellness checks). They are fine for the time being. They are not likely to die from a parasite outbreak with a mommy who is so attentive.

EVERY glider has the potential to have parasites. EVERY ONE of them - unless they are living in a bubble. Parasites are everywhere.

I take in rescues - rescues who have lived in deplorable conditions and who usually start their lives with a mill breeder. And, I certainly do not test every single month. That is complete overkill. And, if a glider DOES test positive, then you just follow the steps that Chris outlined here and that is that. It is not a death sentence unless you don't treat correctly.

I have treated a LOT of gliders with parasites and never lost one to the parasites yet. Parasites kill if they are not treated. I don't go looking for them every month here - even with the type of gliders routinely entering my doors.

If you are not having symptoms, then just get to know your gliders and give them a break. Try to focus on the POSITIVE rather than worrying every day about the worst that could happen. Not only is that not good for your gliders, it is terrible for your own health.

Do your gliders have symptoms?
Are they loosing weight?
Do they have loose, tarry black, or very smelly stool?

If you answered NO to these, then you do not have to worry right this minute. You have tested, and tested....so relax and just enjoy your gliders.

At your next vet visit - for any reason - have a SNAP test done. And if you just can't stop yourself from worrying about it right now, then go have the SNAP done and be done with it.
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Chris R

Chris R


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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeMon Mar 29, 2010 11:35 pm

Parasite questions from WintersSong 179825 Val
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WintersSong

WintersSong


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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeSun Apr 04, 2010 11:17 pm

Val,
Thanks for your post.
I am checking one last time at their nail clipping appointment tomorrow at 5.

A few questions before hand:
What is the MOST accurate type to request that covers multiple parasites? I would think that the Giardia Snap test would only show giardia...

I have heard that there is another that is supposed to be accurate when testing for giardia, as well as other parasites.. centrifuge, or something like that?

Any thoughts?
This will be the LAST assuming I get the all-clear until their next wellness exam, so I want to make sure it's the most accurate that I can get.
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Chris R

Chris R


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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeMon Apr 05, 2010 8:18 am

Yes, a Giardia Snap test only tests for Giardia....When your talking parasites, Giardia, is the most commonly missed one due to its size....Where "most" parasite eggs can be viewed in the 40 to 80 times range it takes about 10 times that amount of magnification to see Giardia.....

A centrifugal fecal float is more accurate because the fecal matter is spun in a centrifuge after adding fecal solution to it, which helps to seperate the eggs from the matter..The eggs then float up to the top because they are lighter than the solution and the fecal matter is forced to the bottom, as it it heavier than the solution..Eggs are "sticky"...Like with human ova, it tries to embed into a likely hatching situation, as the matter goes by its either embedded by the egg or it is scraped off the side of the intestine and attaches to the matter....If the eggs were just always "free floating" they would be constantly pooped out and no longer in the "perfect" environment to hatch..The eggs are "programmed" to try to hatch, so they embed.....This is also why it takes higher numbers of parasites to diagnose them

Hope this helps for you to understand a little more about this subject
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WintersSong

WintersSong


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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeMon Apr 05, 2010 11:31 am

Okay, so it sounds like what I want to ask for today is the centrifugal, as I want to make sure they don't have other parasites, too.

And like I should probably replace the fecal floats/smears at regular exams with centrifugal fecals, due to centrifugal being more accurate..

Thanks, Chris.

Fingers crossed for good results today!
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queenduck

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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeMon Apr 05, 2010 12:01 pm

Sara, when I got Astrid (who came from the best of homes, 2 cages of gliders and spoiled rotten and the place was clean clean clean) she appeared happy and healthy, until I got her home. She never had diarrhea she just slowly stopped eating. At first I thought she was just stressed, encouraged her to take liquids, and she declined. I called the vet and by that time I had hand fed her lots of hydration. The vet looked at her and said... prob. stress but lets test. She had giardia. She was treated and all is good. Anyhow, I don't want people out there to wait for diarrhea, sometimes it doesn't happen. Observe your gliders, their intact and output and watch for changes.
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WintersSong

WintersSong


Posts : 335
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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeMon Apr 05, 2010 12:23 pm

Hmm.. So maybe I'll request both a giardia snap test and a centrifugal...
Does anyone have any ideas how much both of these typically cost?
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Chris R

Chris R


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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeMon Apr 05, 2010 3:29 pm

A SNAP test runs around 25 dollars and a centrifugal fecal float runs 15-20 dollars
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WintersSong

WintersSong


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PostSubject: Re: Parasite questions from WintersSong   Parasite questions from WintersSong Icon_minitimeMon Apr 05, 2010 5:20 pm

Well, I forgot to request the SNAP test. I had a lot of things on my mind at the time of the visit, as well having my niece with me, so I was a bit distracted. I did request
the regular fecal float/smear and the centrifugal. Everything on those was negative.I spoke with both the vet and vet tech about my concerns. Both agreed that I was likely just being a bit paranoid and that they seem to be two very healthy gliders, and that I should wait to re-test fecals until their next wellness exams (sooner if something starts to seem off- --including changes in behavior, eating habits, etc.. of course). They also both understood why I would be concerned with them being PPP gliders but assured me that they have had both healthy and sick gliders from PPP and that it's sort of "luck of the draw" with them.
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