I have something I need to get off my chest....

I just wanted to say, even though you didn't answer my question, thank you for your input anyway, Val :)

Quote :

I just don't understand the need to make it easier to feed gliders. I feed many more than any of you on a daily basis and it is not at all hard for me to chop fresh foods daily for them. It just isn't something that I find tedious or troublesome. I enjoy feeding my gliders and enjoy it even more when I know they are getting a wide variety of fresh, wholesome, nutritious foods.

Come spend a week with me Val. I can't even figure out how to feed Jacob sometimes. Really, that's no joke. But that isn't your fault, that's mine for wanting a SIXTH child. Why didn't someone tell me I had lost my mind? Isn't that what friends are for? But I'll keep him, he's kind of cute. And lucky for me he loves oatmeal for breakfast (quick and easy) and he actually loves school lunches, and he loves fast food.

Same goes with the gliders. I did not need the amount I have, the ones I have offered to long term foster (I have 13 in total right now) along with some of the ones 'I just had to have'. But I do have too many, what am I to do now? I'm stuck... so I do the best with what time I have.

I get up between 4:30 and 5 am, at work by 6 am, and if I am lucky I am home around 7 pm, but sometimes it's much, much later. I only do that 15 days in a week so you would think that I'd have more time on my 15 days off, but I don't. Life is full and I need to find more time, but despite looking... I can't find it.

I have seen Val prepare dinner for all her babies and my hat, and shoes, and coat and big girl panties are off to her. She is bombdiggity and her gliders eat better than mine, and better than Jacob.

But for me, and others, I really can not cut and dice and sort and balance like you do. I promise you, I really really do not have time.

While I have no plans on making the HPW-complete as a staple (I think it should be used in addition to fruits and veggies when you travel only) I have for many years feed an HPW-type diet with my own tweeks. For me the convenience is not only a time saver it is a life saver. Your post made me feel bad, like there is no reason to feed a HPW diet and that gliders owners like myself that work full time, have a husband and children, and grandchildren and school, and lots of other mundane responsibilities should make the time to feed fresh or be less of a glider owner. You have to understand that yes you are busy, I know that first hand, but we all lead different lives and our needs are all different.

But maybe you are right. Maybe the glider's needs are not different so maybe owners like myself should not own gliders if I can't provide the time to chop and dice everyday. You've given me a lot to think about.

No Alicia...I don't think Val meant to make anyone feel bad. Heck I don't even chop fresh every night and I only have the one cage. I make frozen smoothie cubes JUST to make part of feeding easier. So I should be labeled the laziest of lazy! lol
I just had to come in and say that...I didn't want to get involved but I just wanted to say that I know you love your babies, human and fur...and you do great by them. Val just enjoys chopping fresh everyday. That's her thing. I'm sure she didn't mean to hurt anybody.

I am now going to hug all of you guys in one foul SWOOP!


And now I'm off to go make lazy fruit smoothie cubes.

Kuroneko,
The new HPW diet/s have 2 preservatives called
bha and bht. These arel carcinogens and cause cancer in people and many other
problems. It is being phased out in some states. i wish a safer preservative would have
been used as I might have tried it when going on vacation with my family/suggies.
i am the natural/organic type person so I also do a lot of chopping nightly for my gliders.

Regards,
Nancy in Detroit

Thanks Nancy.

Alicia, maybe I need to choose my words better. I did not mean at all what you took from my words.

When I say "I just don't see the need to make it easier to feed gliders" what *I* meant was that it has already been made pretty darn easy for everyone. What *I* do is far more labor intensive than the average glider owner. Most people make their staple mix (which ever one they are feeding) and freeze it and then every night feed that plus some frozen fruits and veggies with maybe a few fresh in-season fruits/veggies thrown in. That is how most people do it. I think that is pretty darn easy. I don't see the need to make it even easier by saving you the few minutes it takes to boil some eggs or run a blender once every week/month/etc. I think it is pretty darn easy to feed them HPW, BML, etc, etc, etc as it is. My point was that it is already so easy that some of us just had to go and make it harder. LOL. I specifically pointed out that I was onlyh talking about my own personal philosophy for feeding gliders so that people who are a bit touchy on the subject right now would know that I am NOT talking about any of you or passing judgement on the way that you feed your gliders.
However, I do have to give a reason that I would not consider this diet (at least the "complete" version) for MY gliders, and that reason is that I prefer to provide fresh, organic and wholesome foods. that is my preference and I can choose that for the gliders in my home just as well as you can choose to feed yours any way you like in your home.

Look, the reason I am not commenting too much on these new versions of Peggy's diet is because I really don't care what others feed (unless you have some of my gliders in your home). I don't think these new powders are evil or terrible, nor do I think they are right for me at this time. I'm one of the people who don't see what the big deal is about all of this - it seems to me that the people who are the most negative about it either feed HPW (the original/classic/whatever version) or did at one time. That would indicate to me that they trusted Peggy to create a diet at one time, so I begin to wonder what changed? Why not trust her to make changes that she feels are better for the gliders? I don't get it. If you don't like the new powders, don't feed them. Easy peasy. We keep telling everyone to do their own research and to make up their own minds about things, but Heaven forbid we should increase the number of choices they have! Doesn't that seem silly to anyone else?

Anyway, I am sorry to have made you feel bad Alicia. You and I both have known for years that we don't feed our gliders the same, so I'm not sure what about me putting it in writing would cause you to feel bad now. ????? I feed my gliders fresh foods, green foods, a wide variety of foods, organic foods, etc because I think that is best for them. There are others that think that is not necessary and that balancing ratios and such is way more important. As I said earlier in this thread - you feed what you think is best and I'll do the same and we'll all be happy. No offense was intended by my earlier post or by this one.

Val, let me try this again.

1. I have no problem with what you said. I know that is how you feed, and I know you feed that way because you feel it is best for your family. I agree that fresh would be best. You are right. Now the other stuff you add... I can't agree or disagree on that because I have no idea what you are talking about most of the time (not because of you, just because I have no knowledge of what you are talking about, lol). If I was a gambling person (and I am) and there was odds in Vegas of which set of gliders ate the best... yours or mine. I'd put my money on you Val. So there is no issue there.

2. I think I misunderstood what you meant when you said there was no reason to make feeding gliders any easier.... to me that means any easier than you. And then you go onto to say that you don't find it to be immpossible and you feed many more than most of us, so.... no reason to make it easier (than you). I was just trying to say. We are not you, some of us are also busy, some might actually be busier, or at least at home less than you. Some of us do need it easier than your diet. Really, some do. I have my hand way UP high.

3. There was nothing wrong about what you posted. I respect your opinions, we don't agree on everything but I know you dont' say something you don't mean. You are passionate and dedicated. You didn't make me feel bad, your post did. But that's on me, not on you. And I'd never want to you appoligize for anything you said. I know you say what you mean. You are who you are and I am fine with that. (gibber gabber now coming from me, lol)

4. Your post made 'think' that that maybe, just maybe if I really don't have enough time to attempt at fresh foods every now and then, then maybe I should have less gliders. It should be a labor of love instead of a chore. That is what I mean by you made me think.

Quote :

Thanks for your enquiry regarding Wombaroo High Protein Supplement. Please find attached datasheet with information about this product.

Our product is often used as part of the High Protein Wombaroo (HPW) diet for Sugar Gliders.

The new products that you sent us a link to (HPW Plus and HPW Complete) are not Wombaroo products and we do not have any information about them. However by using the term “HPW” in their product we believe that are clearly misleading customers that there is some link to the tried and tested Wombaroo product (after all the “W” in HPW stands for Wombaroo). A quick comparison of the composition of these products indicates some sort of attempt to copy the Wombaroo formula, eg protein, fat and fibre contents all about the same. However there are some major discrepancies in the vitamins and minerals quoted on the “ingredients” page of their website eg the HPW Plus quotes a minimum Vitamin A level of 15%, and the HPW Complete has 10%. These are ridiculously high numbers, and hopefully are just a typo (otherwise it would be at toxic levels). More insidious, are the levels of Selenium at 0.15% in the HPW Plus diet (which equates to 1.5 grams per kilogram). This is 10,000 times the concentration in our product, which would almost certainly be at a toxic level. Vitamin A and Selenium are just 2 of the listed micro-nutrients, we fear there could be problems with some of the others.

I would urge caution using a product with such inaccurate technical information. They could be genuinely careless mistakes or otherwise indicate an inability to undertake the basic calculations required to formulate a nutritional product.

Regards,

Gordon Rich.

This is the response Geoff/Perfect Pet/ Wombaroo distributor got from the owner of Wombaroo in AU when asked about Peggy's new diet.

Thank you Karen,

I do hope the Vitamin A and Selenium values Peggy has posted are indeed typos.
The question about the Vitamin A content was asked on GG by Lunnaris. She is new to the boards and is a nutritionist and was alarmed by the 15% vitamin A.

I reposted her question on LGG and Peggy brushed off the concern by simply saying "Vitamin A is sufficient". Peggy has totally ignored the possibility that she has posted an inaccurate amount due to a typo. Peggy appears to be refusing to respond to my questions.

Perhaps the above correspondence should also be shared on LGG - the only board Peggy appears to be participating on.

Candy feel free to post this on LGG as I don't have a account there any more.

Candy, she is also posting on SGN. I went ahead and shared it there as well.

I find it sad they two people in our community report they received the email with the dangerous percentages reported yet they DID NOT contact Peggy.


Yet the both know how to reach Peggy. And even if the had 'lost' Peggy's phone numbers, email address, or way to on of her many pm boxes... they knew who to call to get her phone numbers.

So these percentages were high enough to cause serious and rapid damage.

Then why get the email last night/or even early this am and then not contact Peggy (not by a public post, but personaly) to warn PEGGY, the one responsible to sending it to gliders.

This would have prevented Peggy from sending all the tons of HPW Plus she did this am.

This would have given Peggy time to make a global public post, not an original criptic one to make people wonder and then later come in with the email.

This would have allowed Peggy time to call each customer last night or this am and warn them not to feed HPW Plus until she could find out if there was a real problem or as we know... find out she had typed it wrong.

And of course she would have contacted the manufactoring company and her team.

I know the manufactorying company, I know who her vets are and I know a lot of the actual testing that has been done and some of what is continuing to be done.

I can't tell you exactly why she won't tell everyone, but she has told some of us. She probably is being stuborn because like many of you out there, she doesn't trust you, as you don't trust her. It's a two way street. And because she doesn't have to release the manufactoring company. That is my guess.

If she thought everyone really had the motive of 'the good of the glider' and that is why they were demanding such information, then she might have just given that information out. But it is obvious those that couldn't find the time to contact her and warn her about the possible dangerous levels of the HPW Plus are not motivated by ONLY the good of the glider. If they were, they would have contacted the ONE person who could have made sure it wasn't mailed today.

Peggy may not have handled some things correctly, but I think you have to look at others and shake your head at they way the handled this situation.

Alicia I luvs ya but I have been reading all the threads on the various boards (yes I am nosey and may be interested in looking into it in the future) and I recall at least 2 separate people asking Peggy about the Vitamin A and the Selenium percentages being so high and she either ignored them or gave a snippy comment (my mind is addled with meds and I can not remember the exact words so shame on me but I can track the comment down if need be) So in my mind Peggy did have a heads up. With people reading the threads on all the different boards and seeing her say that the levels were fine or ignoring it why would they bring it up to her again? I wouldn't.

I have no yoggie in this forager(get it lol), for a year now I have been MIA with medical issues but I still want whats best for my babies. I adore everyone doesn't mean I always agree with them but I will always talk to them openly and honestly about why I disagree with them.

Alicia, as I am sure you have read by now the amounts in the diet mixes is OK but Peggy had posted the numbers incorrectly.

I did copy a question about the dangers of the Vitamin A at the levels she had on the web site from a poster on GG and put it on LGG a couple days ago. I asked then if there was a TYPO? and she blew me off by replying that the "amount of Vitamin A was sufficient".

I again stated on LGG that the concern was an extreme excess if her posted numbers were accurate. She has not even acknowledged that I had asked that question.

I guess Gorden types much LOUDER than I do. Peggy was made aware before today and chose not to respond, check the numbers or make the correction until the posts today.

I saw that too Coeli. She said she had already sent in to figure out what was going on:

A post from SGN:


Subject: Re: HPW PLUS & HPW COMPLETE!!! Today at 12:11
KuroNeko wrote:
I'm assuming Scott or Pocket from GG contacted Gordan Rich from Wombaroo and quoted this on the GG thread:

Quote:
The new products that you sent us a link to (HPW Plus and HPW Complete) are not Wombaroo products and we do not have any information about them. However by using the term “HPW” in their product we believe that are clearly misleading customers that there is some link to the tried and tested Wombaroo product (after all the “W” in HPW stands for Wombaroo). A quick comparison of the composition of these products indicates some sort of attempt to copy the Wombaroo formula, eg protein, fat and fibre contents all about the same. However there are some major discrepancies in the vitamins and minerals quoted on the “ingredients” page of their website eg the HPW Plus quotes a minimum Vitamin A level of 15%, and the HPW Complete has 10%. These are ridiculously high numbers, and hopefully are just a typo (otherwise it would be at toxic levels). More insidious, are the levels of Selenium at 0.15% in the HPW Plus diet (which equates to 1.5 grams per kilogram). This is 10,000 times the concentration in our product, which would almost certainly be at a toxic level. Vitamin A and Selenium are just 2 of the listed micro-nutrients, we fear there could be problems with some of the others.



I would urge caution using a product with such inaccurate technical information. They could be genuinely careless mistakes or otherwise indicate an inability to undertake the basic calculations required to formulate a nutritional product.



Peggy, any comment on that?
Just for the record, I'm asking about the percentages, not his remarks on keeping the name HPW.

Honestly, I have no idea who to believe any more because I've seen too many people get corrupted over money.


Yep, I will comment on it. The other day I was asked about the Vitamin A. I checked into it and and just as today when I seen this, I am also having this checked inTO.

I had a lot more written but I think it is best to keep it at this.

CandyOtte wrote:

Peggy was made aware before today and chose not to respond, check the numbers or make the correction until the posts today.

Candy, please read my above post. She was already looking into it.

mizvalorie wrote:

CandyOtte wrote:

Peggy was made aware before today and chose not to respond, check the numbers or make the correction until the posts today.

Candy, please read my above post. She was already looking into it.

This response was from TODAY. This has been mentioned since BEFORE today when I took the above quote to SGN.

Sadly, she quoted my post before I made the correction. So there is some wrong information in my comment quoted above. I originally quoted it from GG before I found it on here.

I would also like to note that Critter Hill has already provided Peggy's most recent response saying it was a typo.

I don't do GG. Rarely if ever and only if I'm really in a bad mood.

Yes i know this post is from today. But she specifically says in her post that when it was mentioned PREVIOUSLY she had already been looking into it. I bet that is why she was able to get an answer so soon after the letter was finally released.