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Something_To_Believe_In
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PostSubject: The Copy Shop   Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:04 pm

It seems that more and more lately we are seeing people copying others and their products. I'm not sure why this has become even more prominent lately, but I know that it has come up a LOT lately.

Here is why it matters - this community is not infinite, so for vendors we don't make an unlimited number of sales. We work hard to come up with unique ideas and products so that we can each have our own niche and YOU can have a wide variety of safe and engaging products to choose from. So, when we come up with something new and unique, we count on being able to sell that toy to you all and to be the only one you are buying it from.

Additionally, in a community this small, there is no need to copy from anyone else. It IS possible for two people to come up with similar ideas, but the "rule of thumb" in this community has always been that the first one tot he boards with the product has claim to the product. This helps eliminate confusion and sets a standard so that we all know what to expect. I am starting to wonder if we are moving toward a more "free-for-all" type of vending.
*I* am not. I have decided that when someone copies even ONE product, I will never again buy ANYTHING from them.

So, I want to know who is copying and what they copied.

Please use this thread to show the original product (name the vendor ) and the date the original was first offered, then show us the copy and tell use WHO is copying it so those like me who want to avoid buying from them can.
If you don't have pictures, you can tell us. However, without the proof, it will be up to each member to decide if they believe there was copying going on or not.


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We are what we are, no matter what we might wish to be, or pretend to be. - Dean Koontz in The Face

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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:28 pm

Jen's Travel Pouch (The Glider Boutique)

Started selling May 2010


Tracey (Tootles) copy

Offered October 2010

-----------♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥-----------
~*~ Val ~*~
Passionate = one step down from crazy

We can only be said to be alive in those moments when our hearts are conscious of our treasures - Thornton Wilder

We are what we are, no matter what we might wish to be, or pretend to be. - Dean Koontz in The Face

My favorite color is orange - I'm the normal one.
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:02 am

I will not be as polite as Val was above.

It has come to my attention that Tracy (again, same as above 'Tootles') has been making my Suggie Tipper toy and selling them behind my back. I came out with these particular toys towards the beginning of the year. She has sold a handful of them (around April) to a well known person in the community who gave her free reign to surprise her with toys that matched her purchased sets. And for the record, this person also said some of the toys fell apart and the some of the sets did too. But that's neither a here nor there, just something spiteful I'm throwing in because I'm human. :)

Here's mine:


Here's her copy cat version:
(sorry poor quality, I had to blow it up)


She has also copied the concept of my Octoglider which I started selling in March. She came out in June with her toy which is the same basic premise of using an acrylic massager as the base and beading in a near exact fashion.

I have found out that she has also copied my Butterfly Toy Bin.

She's copied Jen's pouch, a few more things but I won't go there.

Now....let's be real. No one can say they own the rights to something general like a hanging toy bin. It's a general, widely made toy, here more recently than ever before. But certain things are just a common sense, common courtesy NO NO! I mean, before I started making my Suggie Lookout Towers, I sent Paula a picture of it asking her permission to make more and sell them or even the option for her to tell me no....I figured she already used the plastic coconut toy, I need to ask her before throwing mine out there. It's common freaking courtesy! There are things that we all use, chain, balls, cups, bracelets, the list goes on and on...but general knowledge is...use them in your OWN way!

I am usually the quiet one who stays back and doesn't like to stir up trouble. In FACT, the only time I stirred up any trouble to speak of was when I received a cage set from Tracy last year that resembled a glider death trap. You all remember the thread on LGG probably. (Complete with shocking photos of said death trap) After a bit of a struggle, she apologized (once I basically came out and asked for an apology) I forgave her. But after knowing what I know now, my thoughts of Tracy are now concrete. She is dishonest, shady, and when confronted she quickly turns to excuse making.

I know you'll end up reading this Tracy. I expect you to, or have it read TO you. You went past hurting my feelings again to pissing me off! I don't give a wubber what medication made you do what wrong thing this time or what personal problem leads you to do the next dishonest thing. YOU are a bad person in my book. An excuse making, shady, sketchy person. It's really a shame that you make this kind of a name for yourself. Stop copying my toys! (And everyone else's things for that matter.)
For the record...I have absolutely no problem if ANYONE wants to make any of my toys for themselves. In fact, it's flattering. But to make and sell them to other people is another story.


Last edited by BindiAndScrubbie on Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:30 am; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : Took out a few naughty and angry words....but I'm not ready to take them all out yet!)
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:44 am

Well darn, I had no idea all that was goin on!!!!!!!

Anytime I see a copy of someone's original design I am real quick to call their attention to it. The ORIGINAL designer since it is ultimately their fight. But yeah, I'm not about to buy a copy. I have been on the receiving end of an accusation of copying someone, and it really knocks you down when you realize that something you thought you came up with was actually done very similar before. I will definately be keeping track of this thread to make sure I get goodies from the ORIGINAL creators! Though I don't seem to have purchases from anyone other than Davie in the last year or so. LOL
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:12 am

I copy/pasted this post that I made over on LGG...

I think, for the record, there are a few things that are pretty much fair game since I have never seen anyone step up and say, "Hey, I invented that!"...

Square bottom pouches - with 2 hanging tabs
Corner hammocks - Triangle shaped with 3 tabs (With or without fringe)
Shelves/hammocks - Square or rectangle with 4 tabs (With or without fringe)
Simple tunnels - (With or without landware reinforcing)
Simple bonding pouches - windowed or non-windowed, with or without a zipper. You know the standard square pouch with the mesh going from one side of the pouch to the other. (NOT THE ONE IN THE PICTURE! I'm talking about the one every other vendor in the free world makes. Square, zipper, window, 2 loops for a strap. Made solely out of fleece, cotton and/or flannel with no embellishments. Don't kill me!!!!!)
Fringed "vines" - Now, the addition of loops to hang toys, that seems pretty ingenious to me, so not too run-of-the-mill. (And they hang so COOL! I make my own stuff... hook a sista up???)

Toys are SUCH a grey area, I stuck to simple long toys. But if anyone ever comes to me and says, "Hey, that's MINE!", I just back off! LOL

Now, the same person who inspired this thread, who I have never really had a "personal" issue with, per se, did give me a load of caca about "copying" things on more than one ocassion. And she called 2 of my deisgns "un-original", stating that my cake cube was nothing more than a 3 sided cube. Yeah, burned my ARSE to be sure! Who ELSE has done that? WITH stripes and a damn cherry on top??? So to see all this kinda chaps me raw to say the least!

Oh, and just an FYI to any adventerous folks... Even though I am not vending at the monent, I HAVE applied for a patent to the "Cake" goodies as pet bedding. I also have the paperwork here to file for a patent on the "Luxury" bonding pouches that we know as "Grown UP" bonding pouches. So do NOT try that one!
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:06 am

BelladonnasMom wrote:
I have been on the receiving end of an accusation of copying someone, and it really knocks you down when you realize that something you thought you came up with was actually done very similar before.

That's true Robin, it can happen. And in that case, the two people should work together to work it out. {humdigity}, for all I know somebody somewhere may think I copied something and in that case, I'd happily pull mine if they had come up with their concept first. It would be only right.

But Tracy is not stupid. (no matter what I said on LGG which I cannot edit like I can here. LOL) She knows what she did even though she'll never own up to it. It's too many cases, too many scenarios, too many similarities.....TOO MUCH COPYING!




Last edited by BindiAndScrubbie on Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:37 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Oops, another angry naughty removal.)
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:08 am

Wow,just wow!

And yes your cake pouch/cube is defiantly original Robin! I can't believe someone would say it wasn't!

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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:10 pm

Well, Tracy is not the only one to copy. We all know that many of our products have been copied on ebay. Where are these products? Who is selling them?

We also know that Cheryl finally admitted to copying Alicia's sissy pouch.

Quote :
Now....let's be real. No one can say they own the rights to something general like a hanging toy bin. It's a general, widely made toy, here more recently than ever before. But certain things are just a common sense, common courtesy NO NO! I mean, before I started making my Suggie Lookout Towers, I sent Paula a picture of it asking her permission to make more and sell them or even the option for her to tell me no....I figured she already used the plastic coconut toy, I need to ask her before throwing mine out there. It's common freaking courtesy! There are things that we all use, chain, balls, cups, bracelets, the list goes on and on...but general knowledge is...use them in your OWN way!
Good points, Davie.

-----------♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥-----------
~*~ Val ~*~
Passionate = one step down from crazy

We can only be said to be alive in those moments when our hearts are conscious of our treasures - Thornton Wilder

We are what we are, no matter what we might wish to be, or pretend to be. - Dean Koontz in The Face

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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:44 pm

It IS just common courtesy. Just like when I came out with the Jeepers, Davie was making her toys the Animobiles, she contacted me and said hey, I just wanted to talk to you cause I just made this toy and it looks similar to the jeepers if you dont want me to sell it I wont....I looked at it and of course it looked NOTHING at all like the Jeppers. Point being she contacted me first, not because she HAD to, but because it was the thing we all try to do around here for one another...well, most of us anyway, those with morals....
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:11 am

I belive Val, Was just recently copied as well with her Cascade Falls Toy. I belive I saw someone selling them on Critter Bin, I also know that Val has been making those for around a year and a half ( not sure exactly but at least a year. It is messed up because she was the first one to comment when Val was looking for help with a name for it, then a couple weeks later she starts selling them

Original by Valhttp://thesweetspot.forumotion.net/vendor-ideas-talk-f67/toy-naming-contest-t900.htm#8765

I went to get a pic of the copy and they are no longer their, Maybe this thread scared them away.
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:42 am

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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:08 am

jen102375 wrote:
I belive Val, Was just recently copied as well with her Cascade Falls Toy. I belive I saw someone selling them on Critter Bin, I also know that Val has been making those for around a year and a half ( not sure exactly but at least a year. It is messed up because she was the first one to comment when Val was looking for help with a name for it, then a couple weeks later she starts selling them

Original by Valhttp://thesweetspot.forumotion.net/vendor-ideas-talk-f67/toy-naming-contest-t900.htm#8765

I went to get a pic of the copy and they are no longer their, Maybe this thread scared them away.

No this thread didn't scare me away, didn't see it till late last night. You afraid to use my name?

I ended the auction because it wasn't included in the Thanksgiving sale I was advertising for. I didn't start selling them a couple weeks after Val- I contacted Val shortly after she posted her thread on naming the Cascade Falls- yes I did comment on her post about it- should I have said she was a copy cat? No I didn't feel that way, coincidences really do happen. It's been said she's been making them quite awhile, but I've NEVER seen anyone talk about them or even post a picture before her posting the thread for a name. At the time I contacted Val I had several made & waiting to debut at the gtg I was hosting- I brought all this up to Val but obviously that's not good enough, because SHE brought it to the board FIRST. Trust me, I didn't whip these up over night after commenting on Val's name this toy thread. I've explained this all with Val.

Yes they do look similar and have the same makeup- Fleece & chain with toys hanging from a swim ring- but I highly doubt they are made the same. Coincidence's do happen and with a lot of the same ingredients going into a project, there will times people will come out with similar ideas.

There are so many things I could comment on several of the other posts in this thread- but ya know what- I don't stoop to that level any longer!!
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:09 am

I was the first to have Val's cascade falls toy. I got it almost 2yrs ago in a cage set she made me. Val even forgot that i was the one that got the original.

Another person that has been copied is Glider Nursery. She came out with the Sugar Maple tree in June of 09. I got one of the first ones. then she had them to sell at the SGGA that year. In Sept 09 she posted on all the boards about them. Oct 09 krys kritters came out with the Apple tree claiming she was the first.
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:20 am

Can I just say.... I dont think that either Val or Nancy would ever *Copy* something someone else is making??

BOTH of these ladies are VERY creative in their own designs and I have to say I do believe that sometimes two people can have very similar items.

Karen...those two trees are different....different NAMES anyway.... Shelly came out with the *Sugar Maple* and Krys came out with the *apple tree* two totally different kinds of trees....(ok, Ill shut up...I was just trying to be funny about the trees.... LOL)
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:37 am

srlb wrote:
Can I just say.... I dont think that either Val or Nancy would ever *Copy* something someone else is making??

BOTH of these ladies are VERY creative in their own designs and I have to say I do believe that sometimes two people can have very similar items.

Karen...those two trees are different....different NAMES anyway.... Shelly came out with the *Sugar Maple* and Krys came out with the *apple tree* two totally different kinds of trees....(ok, Ill shut up...I was just trying to be funny about the trees.... LOL)

Thanks Peggy-

Kathy was making a pvc tree quite some time ago- now that she has closed shop does that leave that item untouchable?
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:13 am

No, I am not afraid to use your name I thought I had, And What Board did she bring it to? I am the one who posted about you copying NOT VAL. She started this thread I belive because Myself and Davie brought it to her attention that we were copied. Why give a suggestion for a name for a toy when you were supposedly making them? That is weird. I would never help pick out a name for a toy that someone made when I was making the same toy.
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:29 am

Both Val and Nancy's toys look very similar to a toy that Sugarlope (Gretchen) has made for years. I don't think that either of them were copying her either. It's just one of those things that you can only do so much with. Hanging fleece is going to look like hanging fleece, but does that mean that no one else is allowed to cut fleece into strips and hang it?
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:35 am

Quote :
Both Val and Nancy's toys look very similar to a toy that Sugarlope (Gretchen) has made for years.

The Fleece Fountain. Yep I used to sell those in my pet store!! Matter of fact, I still have one in my birds cage. But they were not on the*ring* that these seem to be, but you are right Megi. Never even thought of that!! LOL

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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:36 am

The bringing it to the board- about advertising the product first-that's what I was referring it to. Val made the comment about who brings it to the boards first, owns the idea.

Offering to help name a product- that is what you would do, it's not what I would do. I see it the same as helping another vendor improve/add to a certain item. It's all for the gliders.

Tracy said she made some changes to her pouch- what did the original look like? She has been around for quite some time & has been making bonding pouches.

I coulda jumped down your throat when you came into the vending world with your store name- The Glider Boutique is too much like Mobmilli's Glider Boutique- that's been the name of my store since 2005. But NO I didn't.
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:39 am

princessmegi wrote:
Both Val and Nancy's toys look very similar to a toy that Sugarlope (Gretchen) has made for years. I don't think that either of them were copying her either. It's just one of those things that you can only do so much with. Hanging fleece is going to look like hanging fleece, but does that mean that no one else is allowed to cut fleece into strips and hang it?

Your right Megi- they look very similar. I even told Val in my conversation with her- that Gretchen's toy was my inspiration in putting the toy together. I like Gretchen's fleece strip idea and then the toys mixed in idea from Roya's(straight fleece strips)- so collide the 2 together and came out with the Monkey Madness.
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:03 am

So that we can get this thread back on track --

I have been making my Cascade falls (without a name) for almost 2 years. I only gave them to a few people and probably only made 3 of them before I decided to really go for it. The first few that I made and gave to friends were my test products. Had to make sure they were safe and that gliders would actually play with them. Then I got so busy with making other products from my store I just didn't introduce it until now. Nonetheless, a few people in the community have had them for close to 2 years.

Yes, they look similar to the fountain only in the way the fleece is cut. Otherwise, they are tied to a ring and chain is added and then toys hung on the chain. I felt that made them different enough. I have some fleece fountains here and I love them. I can look at the two side-by-side and see huge differences. But, if others thought they were too similar, I will discontinue selling mine.

As to Nancy - Yes, she did contact me. She offered a name suggestion in my thread and then two weeks later contacted me through PM to inform me that she had her Monkey Madness toy that she would be selling. She repeatedly stated that she did not copy my toy and that we must have had the same idea at the same time. It did upset me, as to me it was not the "same time." I had been making my toy for years already. And, I thought that the time I put the toy up for the naming contest would have been the more appropriate time to bring it up to me if she had a similar toy (not two weeks later). So, I asked her for clarification - I specifically asked if she was wanting to have a conversation about this or if she was just letting me know. Her response was that she was just letting me know she would be selling her toy that looks remarkably like mine. Now, what is a person to say to that? I can't tackle her and prevent her from selling her item and I can't force her to do what *I* would do in the same situation. To tell the truth, there is a long history between Nancy and I so I just figured this was one more time she was going to be a jerk to me. So, I let it go. I figured people would either care or they won't. Turns out, lots of people cared much more than I expected.

I DO follow the rule that whoever makes it to the boards/community with the item first lays "claim" to the item, and that is how *I* judge which one I will buy from. Do you guys have a different means for judging in situations such as this? If so, please share.

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~*~ Val ~*~
Passionate = one step down from crazy

We can only be said to be alive in those moments when our hearts are conscious of our treasures - Thornton Wilder

We are what we are, no matter what we might wish to be, or pretend to be. - Dean Koontz in The Face

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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:17 am

It was NOT 2wks later- it was less than a week. I have the original pm - Shall I screenshot it for those who have doubt? Hey I'll just forward it or give someone access to my pm's - there someone can see the actual conversation and not Val's version she is posting here.

you started the name thread on Oct 9th- I contacted you on Oct 15th - I was busy with life and waited till I could write something I thought you'd understand. I didn't see the issue up for debate, that's why I said I was just letting you know.

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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:20 am

Well all I know is Tracy admitted in pms to making my suggie tipper cuz she thought it was a cute toy and saw no reason why she couldn't 'gift' them in to her large $$ purchase. She says they were a gift, the customer says she paid for them. I believe the customer as she has never had a reputation for lying and Tracy has done so numerous times. Just like I told Tracy in a pm....If I made and gave her Rasta Pasta pouch to every cherished customer who placed an order.....would that then, make it right? Nope.
I see this thread though has now taken a bit of a turn so as in the words of Forrest Gump, 'That's all I have to say about that'.


If Susie Snickerdoodle created a pouch resembling Karin's Floppies, charged $10 less than Karin and was equal in good construction....I'd still never buy it because I know it's Karin's.
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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:23 am

I will accept that it might have been one week rather than two weeks. I don't have time nor desire to nit-pick like that, so I'll accept Nancy's time line. Sorry for misspeaking as to how many days after seeing my original post Nancy contacted me.

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Passionate = one step down from crazy

We can only be said to be alive in those moments when our hearts are conscious of our treasures - Thornton Wilder

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PostSubject: Re: The Copy Shop   Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:46 pm

srlb wrote:
Quote :
Both Val and Nancy's toys look very similar to a toy that Sugarlope (Gretchen) has made for years.

The Fleece Fountain. Yep I used to sell those in my pet store!! Matter of fact, I still have one in my birds cage. But they were not on the*ring* that these seem to be, but you are right Megi. Never even thought of that!! LOL


It was the first thing I thought of when I saw it on criterbay. I didn't even look to see who was selling it though. I just know when I need one I'll call Gretchen.
:) I am a loyal puppy that way. When I find a vendor for a certain item I go to them only for it. I didn't knwo Val had one likeitaswell. I saw the cut of the fleece and thouhgt Gretchen. Simple. Now I can say I also suffer from head up hinney and did not notice the ring or toys :)

As far as Kathy's pipe toys She has been copied by a few people. I would say just because her site is down doesn't mean anyone can make her stuff. I contacted her told her what I needed and she made it for me. I feel the same about the sissy if I need one and QD doesn't have one up for sale I will contact her and have her make one when she gets a chance. I won't go to another person and have a sissy made.

I have seen many of Karin's pouches copied aswell. What is happening in our little glider world????
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