Beth Smith/beth/lovngliders

Subject: Beth Smith/beth/lovngliders Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:51 pm

I wanted to share some information about Beth Smith/beth/lovngliders with the rest of our community:

There has been talk about Mrs. Smith breeding her gliders, which have no lineage. Mrs. Smith made a recent post on GC of the following:

Quote :: ...I just checked on our first time mommy. She had twin girls oop today. I checked them out. One looks great, a little thin but otherwise fine. The other has a front leg that did not fully develop. The part that did develop did not come through the wing membrane. I put her back with her mom. I am not sure what to do. Obviously nature may take it's course. I am setup to handle a rejected joey. I've done this before. Should I take her to the vet immediately or give her a little bit to grow and get some meat on her bones?
I need some advice with this one...

I would like to point out that Mrs. Smith has had this issue of deformity before:

Beth Smiths Introduction to LGG:
Link : http://lauriesglidergazette.forumotion.com/a-little-bit-about-me-f3/new-to-llg-from-oregon-t6730.htm#142795

Points I would like to make in regards to this link are as follows:

It is apparent that the recent "deformed joey" post is not Mrs Smiths first. Could this be a problem directly linked to her breeding gliders without lineage? In the above link she says this:

Quote :: ....Hello to all,
Tammy told me about this site last night. We had a minor joey emergency and she came to our aid. Thank God all is well and hopefully the joey will be fine. He will be a special needs glider, missing one back foot. We will contacting Val for advice on cage setup and accomodations he/she may need....

Breeding without lineage:
Beth states here that she has a "few pairings" reference the above link:

Quote :: ....As for me, I bought my first glider (Pebbles) in March of 2006...She is paired with BamBam. They are amazing parents and pets. I have BamBam's dad Dale in with P&B's daughter DeeDee. I have a beautiful WFB named Destiny...

Beth Smith has bred a "rejected" status joey without any concern for offspring.
In a GC post dated 2-1-08 She says this:

Quote :: .....Chip was the most amazing glider God ever created. She accepted and raised a surrogate joey. This little guy was removed from his dead mommy's pouch when he was only about two weeks into the pouch. He found a nipple on Chip and is now a health, happly boy. His name is Miracle and will live in our home forever....

If you do a little research here you will see that Miracle was bred to Destiny to produce Cuddles & Prince. Both are wfb and Beth kept them. They also had 2 grey joeys who beth sold. Cuddles was paired up and bred. Prince.. I am not sure. He is on a part ownership with the owner of the pet store.

In a GC post dated 5-5-08 Beth Claims that Destiny and Miracle (wbf and grey) have bred. You can see by her signature where she has them "paired"

Quote :: ...Hello everyone,
I am confused and am hoping that someone here can explain a few things to me. I have had gliders for two years and have had the opportunity to have several joeys. My newest little girl is 9 months old and is a second generation white faced blond. She is mated with a standard grey, who is also 9 months old. They have been togther since they were about 10 week oop. I discovered a tiny joey in her pouch this past weekend. I have a few questions about our newest tiny family member.

1. Is the white faced gene dominate or
recessive?
2. Will she have 50% of her babies turn out to
be whb given that she is mated with a
standard grey?
3. Will all of her babies carry the wfb gene?
4. What exactly does het mean?
5. How do I descibe her joeys?
a. those who are wfb?
b. those who are grey?
6. How soon out of the pouch before you can
tell the color of the glider?

I know this is a lot of questions, but this is new and confusing for me. Thank you to everyone.

Beth, Mom to Dale, Lilly, Pebbles, BammBamm, Miracle & Destiny...

[b]Within this LGG post you can read all about her "rescue" attempt. She starts to post on the 2nd page.

Link: http://lauriesglidergazette.forumotion.com/rescuer-chat-f8/have-a-lady-in-az-who-helps-with-getting-gliders-t6387.htm

Points I would like to make in regards to this link are as follows:

I would like to point out that Mrs Smith took in a bonded colony as a rescue. She then split them all up. She says this:

Quote :: ...As for the 8 gliders, the 3 older males were adopted by a wonderful family in Grants Pass. I do not believe that I could have found them a happier home id I had tried. Two of the girls are living together here in town with a very patient mommy. One of those two is living with minot neurological issues. This owner works with the vet so any/all issues will be dealt with promptly. The other two females are moving to just south of the Eugene area this weekend. They are both in good health. That leaves the joey who will be placed next week.

After returning from Ca. I took two of the gliders into my local exotic vet for wellness checks. They passed will flying colors. The vet said he did not need to see the rest. I got the colony into two large flight cages. One for the older boys and one for the girls plus joey. I transfered them from the grape/carrot/mealworm diet to BML fresh fruits & veggies,Gliderade and assorted insects. Their fur is so soft now....

As for this statement. 3 Males were adopted by Melissa is Grants Pass, she is a GC member. The two girls were given to a lady named Tracy. She works for a local vet. When she was caught looking for a male to breed them to she was instructed to give them back. Once back in Mrs Smiths care they were adopted out to a lady named Kristen in Newberg Or. (note: those girls were shuffled between 3 owners in under a month). She gave two other girls to a lady she is good friends with. The joey was sold to Nate. He is the owner of Zany Zoo Pet store in Eugene Oregon. Nate then sold him to a random person looking for a glider. The gliders we not taken in to see Dr. Sean. Mrs Smith gathered stool from two gliders and took that in for fecals. Once the two fecals were clear she sold or gave them away.

Back to breeding without lineage. You will see in the above referenced link the following information which further supports the fact that Beth Smith is breeding without lineage:

Quote :: ...Hi, I live in Eugene. I have had gliders for 3 years. I got first one shortly after my mom died in Feb. 2006. She is a std gray named Pebbles. In May of that year I adopted a pregnant pair that was on conginment at our local exotic pet store, Zany Zoo....Back to my gliders. Chip & Dale came to me in May 2006. I kept their son, BamBam and mated him with Pebbles. Their daughter went to a friend of mine. I Sept of 2007 I adopted from Zany Zoo a white faced blonde....Her name is Destiny. Her mate is Miracle. He earned is name. His mom died while he was tiny in her pouch. The glider's owner took her to Zany Zoo. Nate, the owner of Zany Zoo, brought the dead mom to my house.

He removed the joey and slid it into Chip's pouch. She had a tiny joey in her pouch at the time. He found a nipple a latched on. I explained to Chip & Dale what had happened and that this little baby needed them. You honestly would never know this was not their joey. I donated the female who was already in pouch to Zany Zoo for educational purposes....Miracle and Desiny are in love. Oh, Miracle is std. gray. At some point in 2008 I adopted one of Dale's grandson's, Freddie. He is mated with Cuddles. She is a wfb from Destiny & Miracle. This is my glider colony. Each pair is in their cage....

Scroll down a bit and you will see:

Quote :: ....Bad mom, I forgot a glider. I have DeeDee, one of Pebbles & BamBam's in with Dale. They are expecting their first set of twins. I was considering nuetering Dale. He self mutalates, overgrooms his entire lower half. He was doing this when I got him. I am concerned that nuetering him will be very hard on him....

In a recent visit to Mrs Smiths home I was shown a pretty little wfb girl. She was the offspring of Cuddles and Freddie. She is lined up to be bred as well. Dale (the SM boy) is still not neutered. The only male in her home neutered is Miracle.

By the time you get to the 3rd page of this link you will see Mrs. Smith "elaborate" on her "rescue" efforts:

Quote :: ....I am sorry. I was wrong to sell a rescue joey to a pet store. I am new to all of this and I have obviously done wrong. I have realized my mistakes and I will not make them again. The 7 gliders taken out of California went as follows:

3 boys found a loving home with a woman in oregon where they all live happy together and are deeply loved.

2 girls went to a lady who is an amazing friend of mine and will love them forever.

2 girls went to a Vet Tech who I thought was going to care for them the right way. Unfortunately after being told they should never be bred, and should be kept together she has been looking for a male for them. What is done with them now is out of my control but I have contacted the Vet, her boss to tell him of the situation and he has agreed to talk to her and inform her of the reasons to why they should never be bred...The little joey was going to go into foster care until he was more hand tame to rehome. With a turn of unfortunate events in my personal life I
had to trust my friend to find him a loving home. My friend is the owner of a pet store.. so yes he was sold for a small fee to a pet store...

The next link I would like to share with you is this one:

http://lauriesglidergazette.forumotion.com/glider-chat-f15/apology-to-members-of-forum-t8685.htm#185863

Within this link I would like to point out the following:

Beth Smith has stated many times that her boys are getting neutered:

Quote :: ... will step back, grow up, neuter my males and do my research. Please accept my apology....

Quote :: ....In clarification regarding my license. When I got my license two of my girls were pregnant and I had not made the final decision to neuter the whole lot. Also, I personally own 4 females. I simply am covering all my bases. Either way my guys are all in line to be neutered. In this order: Dale, Miracle, BamBam, Freddie, Prince and last one of my friend's. I have one joey in the pouch, if it is a male it will also be neutered as it will not be leaving my home.

Hopefully this clarifies the issue. My license is a breeder/dealer but I will no longer be breeding once all the boys are snipped. If you have any further questions please feel free to ask....

I would like to point out that these statements were made by Mrs. Smith on 6-7-09. Clearly she forgot to neuter her boys.

I would now like to show you this link:

http://lauriesglidergazette.forumotion.com/glider-chat-f15/nueter-scheduled-t8731-15.htm#188338

Again we are told that neuters are scheduled:

Quote :: ....Just let everyone know that I do mean what I say. Dale, my oldest male and the one who overgrooms, is being nuetered on 6/11. Once he is healed Miracle will go in next. Please include Dale in your prayers....

Quote :: .....Miracle was neutered on Thrusday morning June 11th. Would you like a copy of the bill from the vet I will mail you one? Or the vet's phone number so you can call and verify? I do not mean to be rude but I am tired of being called a liar. I do not know how to take a picture of Miracle, his tummy and ecollar to post on the internet or I would....

Thank you for taking the time to read through this. I hope and pray that we are all able to work together to educate people and let them know that buying a glider from a reputable breeder is the best way to go.