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queenduck

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PostSubject: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 2:41 am

Toni and I returned from the Midwest to find a lump/bump something on Gannon's neck. I have only had tail injuries here and they didn't teach me this stuff in paramedic school. My guess is it is an abscess. I didn't see a scab or feel one and it looked like a purple patch to me, until I took pictuesw and blew them up. Ignore the yellow/it's betadine. I am worried sick.


So, I flushed it with sterile water, swabbed it with betadine and now I am waiting for a vet's office to open and see us. Under the wound he has a pea to marble sized hard knot, It does not appear to be painful to Gannon, he let me feel it, clean it, and swab it. He put up more of a struggle with the nail trim than he did the cleaning and exam (by Dr Toni and myself) and after eating a grape we watched him groom his face and he didn't see to notice there was anything wrong. He does have a droopy right ear but it does pop back up when he in interested in something. He otherwise looks normal. He is active and hungry but I can still tell his is a little 'off'.

I have no idea what could have caused this, same items in the cage, gets along great with his cage mates (they are sisters) they have been together for a long time/no issues. I gave him his head rub on a few days ago so I KNOW it wasn't there, so it just popped up. Did not take Gannon to the Midwest, he was taken care of by my family.

Anyhow, posting pictures for Dr. Shawna and Val.





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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 8:32 am

Poor baby! I have never had any abcesses here either, but it certainly looks like it could be one? I hope he clears up soon for you Alicia.
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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 8:38 am

It still looks like a bite to me. Pooh - I wish I was there. Most abscesses on gliders do not turn purple/dark like that. But, most abscesses are not on the neck either, so maybe that is normal for this area?????

Do you remember the bite I got at the RRRoundup (spider bite)? It ended up looking kinda like that a few days later.

Anywho - I'm praying and waiting for you to call me after the vet visit. Hugs to you and Gannon.

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GliderLove

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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 8:43 am

Val, just had to mention I had the same deal with a spider bite on my leg last year. It looked alot like that and I needed meds. It was gross! See, I have no experience with abcesses at all, I didn't know most of the stuff you just said.
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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 10:32 am

Personally I have had several abscess (on my body) And they've never initially looked like that either.

I hope the vet can figure out what this is.

Praying for you and Gannon.
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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 10:56 am

Gannon looks the same, acting the same this morning. I have an appointment for later today so we will see. Several people have said that it looks like a bite, as in spider, and honestly it can be. There has been an increase of brown recluce bites at work, my old partner Gary's daughter has a really nasty one right nown. We have seen a lot more than normal and we have found brown recluce in our house from time to time.

They are not a rare thing here in Kansas.

While I checking on Gannon this morning I was looking at the double stacker he is in, Gannon on the top, Buba/Cremino's on the bottom, and I was thinking... what terrible luck for this cage.

Several people at the Midwest know I had a glider death last week, I just could post about it until after th Midwest because it just happened Thursday and I wanted to speak with Virginia in person about it, I didn't want her to see it on the board. I had already told her I was giving her the baby that died :( So I thought it was something that needed to be done face to face.

Thursday when Toni got here we were checking out all the gliders/babies and moved to the cremino cage (right under Gannon's) I was excited to show her my first cremino joeys (3 weeks old) but when I pulled th pouch out, I only found 2 joeys, not 3. After a quick and paniced search by the both of us, we found the smallest remains of a tuft of cremino fur in the drop pan. This joey had been fat as a tick, well taken care of by his mommies (sisters), they shared joeys and there seemed to be no problems. He was way past the age of typical joey stealing and there was no evidence of him in the pouch, just at that bottom of the cage. One of the mamas was really jumpy and upset, so were Toni and I.

After this episode Toni and I were so shock up, we came upstairs to chain smoke. I didn't get to the top cage (Gannon's) that night because honestly, I was upset and didn't even want to go into the glider room, all gliders had already been feed so there was no need to go back. Toni mentioned this weekend that she couldn't believe we didn't get Gannon out and we both commented on the reason being was the joey death and then of course we left the next day.

So, Gannon could have been this way since Thursday (I don't know) it was in the same cage a joey dissapeared for no reason.

All my double stacked cages are on the interior wall, EXCEPT, this double stacked cage, it is all by itself under a window on the far wall which is the ground side (it is a basement).

If it is a spider bite do you think it is possible that the same spider/another one, could have gotten the joey? If the joey was injured or ill the parents would have removed it.


I just don't know.

Appointment is later today, so I'll just sit and wait.

And just because :( here was my little boy just 9 days before he dissapeared



Last edited by queenduck on Mon May 24, 2010 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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queenduck

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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 12:14 pm

It's Kansas, there are spiders everywhere. LOL. I am just using brown recluse as an example, honestly at this time I have no idea but it does kind of look like a type of bite/not one with teeth.
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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 1:01 pm

Alicia, I'm so sorry!

I was going to say the same thing as Val, it looks like a mating wound, not an abcess. If an abcess opens up it drains, and it would be icky, nasty all around it (you know, pus and blood and smelling awful, just like a boil on us). But, I didn't consider a spider bite. I know someone (I think last year on GC) had one, you might search. The knot under it is concerning.

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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 1:56 pm

Yes, Alicia - I think that a spider could have gotten to the joey. That makes sense and would certainly be easier on your heart than just thinking they disposed of the joey for no reason. So, lets believe that. OK. Yes.

I know I just talked to you guys, but I'm anxious to hear about the vet visit. Gannon is such a trooper for acting like nothing is wrong. What a good boy!

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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 5:47 pm

I agree with Val. If a spider bit the joey, the joey being so young and small, may not have had the same chances that Gannon does. Hoping and praying for good news soon. So sorry about the baby.
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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 6:00 pm

OK, I was the holder and Toni was the notetaker so she'd be better at this but I am sure she will come back and correct me if I am wrong

So first off, I know after last weekend and the talks we had about travel, Gannon should have been in the daytripper safely secured in the back seat, but... I wanted him close to me. So I popped him in my bra and left the daytripper in the back seat. On the way there he didn't want in the bra, but on the outside of the bra and wasn't giving an inch, so I let him win.

We get there and she was surpised how hard the knot was and after a clean up job wanted to get a needle aspirate. Gannon cooperated very well so he did not need to be put under. What she found was THICK yellow pus, said it was filled with bacteria and white blood cells. There was a scab over it, last nigiht it didn't appear there was one (Toni and I may have washed it off before we started our un-professional exam) but by the time we went to the vet it was clearly darker and harder like a scab. So the vet opened this area up and you can not belive how much pus came out, it was so full, and so thick, no wonder it was hard. Anyhow, after all that she released him and he dove in my bra and held very still like... OK, here I am, I am not coming out, you wanted me in the bra... well I am never coming out again.


Gannon did not bark , crab or bite, not one bit. A tiny hiss at the end, but that was it. He apepars to be feeling great and sleeping well.

He gets a little metacam today and tomorrow and amoxicillin. for the next 10 days. I am to agressively clean the area to try to keep it open so it will continue to drain for a few days. And to return if I don't see any improvement in the next few day.

So good news for Gannon.

No reason for the joey.

BTW, Gannon is Jacob's glider if you ask him. I tried to tell him he had to pay the bill and he said NO WAY. He said I am the payer and Gannon is not for sale Jacpb stayed in the exam room up until the vet pulled out a neddle and a syringe and then Jacob said.... I can't stay in here for this and he dissapeared :)
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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 8:45 pm

I don't blame him! For the needle or the bill. Smart kid.

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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 9:00 pm

So - filled with pus means not a spider bite? Or could it still be?

How does something like that happen? Not an accusation, I just really shake my head and wonder how things happen so fast. He's ok at least on Thursday, and then on Monday he's absolutely packed with pus? That mystifies me.

Glad to hear he was a good boy. Jacob should be proud of HIS glider!
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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 9:19 pm

When I had my nasty spider bite it started filling up with pus too. (Gross, I know) So what did the vet think of the spider bite thought? He sounded like he was a very good boy too, I'm sure that made it a little easier.


Last edited by GliderLove on Mon May 24, 2010 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling, as usual. :))
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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 9:37 pm

The filled with pus part is just the body's natural immunity trying to fight off what was in there - lots of white blood cells coming to do their job.

I have pictures of the type of thick, rubbery nastiness that fills an abscess. It is yucky. I'll try to dig them up tomorrow.

One thing that we have learned about gliders is that they DO experience abscesses that go from nothing to huge thing very fast. Hopefully one day we will have REAL answers.

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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Mon May 24, 2010 10:05 pm

Alden, I don't know if there is pus like this in a spider bite or not, I am not a vet. My vet said she in no way thought it was a spider bite, she said it didn't look like one to her. I trust her judgement. I have no idea, that's why I went to a vet. She said her guess was a small puncture wound, could be a toy, sharp metal, anything sharp but she suspected a tooth or a nail because of the amount of bacteria in the mouth and/or nails usually reacts like this. Much like when a cat gets in a fight. She said typically these are tiny holes which barely break the skin, they often are never seen but quickly heal over. The problem is the bacteria is trapped inside. Over time the bacteria grows to the point it causes a problem and is visible.

How long would this take. Again, I am not a vet, I don't know. If you would like to call my vet Alden, feel free to do so. Maybe she can help you understand.

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I didn't say I examined Gannon on Thursday, I said Toni and I were looking at all the gliders and then found/didn't find... a missing joey in the bottom of Gannon's double stacked cage. The bottom cage belongs to Buba and family, Gannon is on the top. Gannon is almost always out when Toni is here, he , Astrid and Destiny always have to have their own time with Toni. She commented on Friday night how she didn't get to see Gannon before we left and we both talked about how side tracked we got after finding the remains of a joey. We did not go back down and seek out Gannon Thursday night after we found the joey. While I had fed them when I fed all the other gliders, I skipped showing that family to Toni since they would have been after the cage where we didn't find a joey, Gannon's cage would have been next and last cage to look at. Toni and I were both so upset of what we did find, we went out to smoke and talk about why, why, why, and we didn't go back down.

I had Gannon out eithor Monday or Tuesday for play time (a week ago), I can't remember which day it was exactly. I did not notice anything out of the ordinary. Gannon gets aggressive top of the head rubs, he is like a dog and loves it, had it been there, I would have noticed it. Wednesday I did not get Gannon out, but I did give him a treat when he poked his head out of the cage. Gannon's pouch is at the back of the cage facing forward, he popped his head out to great me, I gave him a pine nut, fed him and moved on, I didn't notice anything but I didn't look at the back of his head, the front looked normal. Friday and Saturday I was in Kansas City, my daughter didn't notice it but she is not allowed to get any of the gliders out when I am gone. Sunday we came home, saw it, took him in today.

While you say you are not making accusations, you make it feel that way. Your tone is mystifing to me. I've been around long enough and known you long enough to see your post was short of what you really wanted to say.

This is a board related to health and healing. Do you expect people to post more than once and report injury (I could have never told any of you and never posted pictures) if you respond that way? I promise you someone new wouldn't. I will because I belive this is a good thing (a heath related board) but I doubt a newbie would do it twice.
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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Tue May 25, 2010 12:10 am

I didn't take it that way at all, Alicia. But, maybe that's because I'm not so close to the situation as you are. I think we all want to know how and why so we could maybe prevent it or learn from this situations in any way we can.
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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Tue May 25, 2010 12:36 am

I didn't see it that way either Brenda? I am just as curious to know the same about what happened and is the outcome for the poor baby. We know your an AWESOME glider mama Alicia, I don't think anyone was trying to assume you didn't act quick enough or anything. At least that's what I gather from it?

Gannon is gorgeous, your sweet Jacob sounds adorable too, all loving HIS glider! :lol:
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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Tue May 25, 2010 1:30 am

Okay.

Gannon spent most of the day in my bra, at 9 pm he was going stir crazy and wanted time out. He was feeling much better, jumping, gliding, hopping, playing, snacking. We all had a great time and he appeared to be feeling so much better.



My vet said it was up to me if I wanted to put Gannon back in with his family or not. She felt that if they groomed it a bit more, it would be good, keep it open so it wouldn't seal back up before it healed in the inside. Since they have not touched it once, I wasn't sure they would.

I put Gannon back in with the girls, they didn't appear to notice his boo boo. But before you knew it... welll, they did their job. It is now wide open, you can see the tunnel inside, no knot, no scab, no pus, they cleaned it out and some. So now he is in his new cage, away from the girls and sleeping in the living room with Toni and I.


He isn't as perky as he was earlier, very tired, will take snacks but hasn't gotten up to eat.

This picture was taken right before I washed it out for the last time tonight, it is what it looks like nown (except it is clean now)

.
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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Tue May 25, 2010 7:58 am

Alicia
Thank you so much for keeping us updated and for documenting every step with photos. That is so helpful for this board.

I know it is frightening and worrisome, but it looks like it can now begin healing. One of the major challenges with abscesses is getting ALL of the infection out so that they don't keep coming back over and over. This is one of the reasons that we now strongly advocate drains with facial abscesses.

I'll be watching for news that Gannon is all healed up without a single complication.

As promised, here are some pictures I have taken of the yucky, really thick goop that has come out of some facial abscesses:



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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Tue May 25, 2010 8:15 am

Eww, that is gross! I can certainly see why draining that would have to be a must! How could anything heal with that gunk in it? Yuck. I love being able to see pictures, just another reason why I love this board!
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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Tue May 25, 2010 8:57 am

Val would the Quickderm work for this kind of a wound??

The girls did some serious cleaning and it looks like they got rid of all the nasty tissue and the wound is now nice and clean and fresh so it can heal.
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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Tue May 25, 2010 9:46 am

Alicia - I'm sorry I upset you. I really was just curious and trying to get more information for myself. I know you are not a vet, so I was just asking for clarification on what your vet said.

And also just shaking my head in awe at the suddenness of this condition. More in sympathy, I would hope, then in criticism. Thinking "you do everything you can do, and something like this pops up out of no where. Wow."

I'm sorry you felt like I was hurtful or critical. I know you are stressed out enough with Gannon being hurt, but I really wasn't trying to add to your stress. That's EXACTLY why I put a disclaimer on my statement. But it seems even THAT doesn't work! No matter what I say there are some who choose to take offense. But - no offense was intended whatsoever.

Go love your boys and take care of yourself!
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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Tue May 25, 2010 10:02 am

BCChins wrote:
Val would the Quickderm work for this kind of a wound??


I'm not sure if I would use it yet, but I did put a call in to Dr. Walsh to ask. The thing causing me to pause is the mention of the tunneling. I don't know if I would use the quickderm on a tunneling wound, but that is just because I have never had to. So, I asked.

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PostSubject: Re: Gannon, neck wound   Tue May 25, 2010 10:48 am

Val, Gannon does have a clear tunnel right in the center, I can see the end of it, the girlls got all the way down to the end. I did want it open so the remainder of the junk would drain, but once it happened it was shocking to see my boy with such a big wound, it didn't look so angry when it was sealed off. This morning it looks clean and dry.

I am not putting him back in with them until he is healed. As quickly as the deeply groomed him last night, and because they did a little extra, I fear if left unattended they are going to make it much bigger.

The hard part is to see how great he felt before I put him with the girls. Last night and todayd he looks and feels like pooh. He peed all over himself while Toni was holding him, not like him at all, he doesn't want out of the pouch, he didn't explore the new cage last night. He did eat the right amount of HPW but nothing else. He wouldn't take a snack this morning, and he doesn't want to take him medication. Now both ears are down and he looks so sad.

Those pictures Val could have been Gannons, looks like the same stuff.

Thank you Alden.
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