Swollen Tongue - protruding from closed mouth.

Eugene Krabs needs your thoughts and prayers right now.

Got up this morning, gliders were sleeping. I took their food dishes and kitchens out of cages as usual and went about my business and then took a nap this afternoon. I got up around 5pm and went to clean their dishes and kitchens before feeding them and opened the little quad's kitchen and though they are the messiest eaters, ever - I thought how much messier they were last night. Then, I realized that the majority of the splatters and spots and mess was red & they hadn't had anything red to eat last night. It was blood. So much blood splattered all over the inside of the kitchen. I was so scared. I grabbed their pouch, thinking I might only find 3 of them. All 4 faces peeked out at me. Whew! So, I took them out one at a time and looked them over checking for open wounds or anything I could find. The girls were all fine. Eugene, on the other hand, had his tongue sticking out of the side of his closed mouth. He wouldn't put it back in. I put him in a bonding pouch and then grabbed plates for the gliders and threw their food on them & put them in the cages and grabbed Eugene and headed for the e-vet. It's usually a 30-40 minute drive for me, but took more than an hour because it's snowing and the roads are hell. I kept stroking Eugene until I felt him moving and knew he was still with me like every 5 minutes on the looooong car ride.

When we got to the vet, they took him in back right away and started to examine him. He was such a good boy for them - he let them open his mouth and poke and prod him. The only thing the vet could find wrong was that his tongue was swollen so bad it wouldn't fit in his mouth and they couldn't even see the back of his throat. He had bitten the heck out of his tongue, and that's where all that blood came from. It had stopped bleeding, but we have no idea if he bit his tongue and that's why it swelled or if it was swollen and that's why he bit his tongue. I didn't give them anything to eat or anything that they haven't had tons of times before, so I don't think the swelling was an allergic reaction. We just don't know what happened. When the vet came to talk to me, she honestly seemed to expect me to just put him down. She told me that the only thing she could do was give him pain meds and antibiotics and keep him overnight and keep the tongue moist and keep trying to stick it back in his mouth. She really was not optimistic that he would make it. I told her that I needed to call someone (Val) and would get back to her on what I wanted to do. I called Val and she calmed me down a lot! *hugs* Thank you, Val!! She said we should give him convenia and metacam and call Dr. Walsh, her vet, to consult. Val agreed with what I was thinking - that I could do everything for Eugene in the comfort of his own home where he could be with mama that the vet wanted him to stay overnight for.

Well, the vet didn't understand why I wanted her to call Dr. Walsh - she felt she knew exactly what she was saying and recommending and didn't need any help. She informed me that they won't use convenia because if there are side effects, it's not like you can stop giving the meds since it's one shot for 2 weeks worth of meds. Okay, fine. She was going to give him a shot of metacam but then gave him something else since she didn't want to mess with what my vet may want tomorrow. I asked her about his hydration and if she could show me how to sub-q since he doesn't seem able to swallow. She refused because I could OD him on fluids and she also informed me that the tent test doesn't work with gliders because they have too much skin or something like that. Okaaaay...now, I'm really anxious to get him to my regular vet who knows a lot more about gliders (even if it's not as much as Dr. Walsh or Dr. Tristan, etc...) So, she sub-q'd him there before sending him home with me.

When we got home, I made more HPW (I ran out tonight) and I pureed some veggies and some fruits for him. He was able to get a little bit of the antibiotic in his mouth - no idea how much got swallowed - and I am moistening his tongue with water and tried giving him some of the liquid fruit. He's in a hospital cage on my coffee table right in front of me and is acting fairly normal although confused about why he's in there. He keeps chewing on his tongue and I'm afraid he's going to chew it off. The vet was worried about self-mutilating as well as nerve damage. She basically said that if it was nerve damage, he's not going to live (Val helped me see that she could easily be wrong and that he may be able to adapt just fine if that is the case.) So, yeah, that's where we are right now. My vet is about 45 minutes away and opens at 8am - I will be up all night with Eugene and will probably just hop in the car at 7am and head there and call on my way.

Please keep Eugene in your thoughts and prayers tonight.

Here are some pics (they're not that great but you can kinda see what I'm talking about - click the thumbnails to see the pics bigger):

The kitchen








Eugene









Sorry if this is in the wrong place or not written right - I just copied and pasted the same thing on a few forums.

Eugene is a cutie. I'm praying for ya and can't wait to hear what your regular vet says.

Tonya (mysticangel) has a glider whose tongue always hangs out the side of her mouth. If you want to talk with someone who has been there and dealt with it for many years, you might contact her.

Thank you, Val!!


Well, I LOVE my vet!! He is so upset with the e-vet, he's going to have a talk with them. The ONLY thing he agreed with her on was the convenia (2 week course of antibiotics in one shot) and that's only because it hasn't been tested enough for his peace of mind. He anesthetized Eugene and found that the tongue was still pretty swollen - but not terribly so. He gave him a shot of antibiotics and a shot of metacam and wants me to bring him in tomorrow, Wednesday, and Thursday for the same (I don't care that it's 44 miles one way and the roads are bad because of snow - I'll just leave early!). He is hopeful the tongue can be saved, and if it can't - he said we may have to try amputation (the e-vet wouldn't even consider it!) He doesn't understand why the e-vet didn't call him since they have his number and often consult with him even on animals that aren't his regular patients - so he's REALLY upset that they didn't call him for one of his own patients because he would have insisted on starting the metacam right away. He told me that if I ever have problems at the e-vet again, to have them call him. Dr. Baillie made me feel sooo much better and was way more optimistic than the e-vet. So, now we wait and hope the antibiotics and metacam do their job and Eugene's tongue starts working properly again soon. I'm going to take a nap - after I try to get Eugene to eat some liquid foods...

Why would you amputate? Wouldn't you want to wait before you decide that? I hope I don't sound snippy, I'm just curious, and that is concerning.

Brenda - call me when you get up from your nap. I have more good news for ya. :Smile:

I have some things I want to tell you about the tongue - from the perspective of one who messes with tongues as a profession. LOL.


Shawna - I think (not sure) her vet was just preparing her for all eventualities - in CASE this does not improve soon. I hope they were not talking about the near future.

I have told Brenda that she will have extra time with Dr. Walsh at the RRRoundup to discuss Eugene. With Brenda's permission, I will alert Dr. Walsh ahead of time so that he can give it thought too.

Having said that, I really am praying that he just heals right up and there is nothing to worry about a week from now. I also pray that the cost of this situation does not prohibit Brenda from coming to the RRRoundup.

I tried calling - I'm only up for a few minutes, gave Eugene some water.

Shawna, Val is exactly right - he was just giving me worst case scenario. We are hoping and praying that the meds will work fine and we won't even have to consider anything else! As for the e-vet, when she was so negative about him surviving the night - I just asked her if amputation was an option and she said no, it wasn't possible - so, I was pleased when my vet brought it up himself (although as being difficult and LAST resort). I knew that he wasn't going to give up on Eugene like the e-vet was so willing to do.

Val, of course you have my permission to discuss this with Dr. Walsh. Thank you so much!

I'm just going to have to borrow more money from my parents right now. :( But, I'm still planning on driving to Texas!

Good, thanks for the explanation! That is good news, and you sound more positive now, too.

I feel a lot more positive. It's so nice to have a vet who won't give up on my baby.

Eugene acts like nothing is wrong. I had him out and he was jumping from me to anything he could in the living room and back to me. He did try to lick me several times which made me sad that he couldn't. He made me so proud tonight, I was crying. He found the water bottle in his hospital cage and he figured out to stick his thumb into the spout so the water drips into his mouth since he can't lap it up. One thing that worries me is when I feed him, he tries to grab his tongue and pull it out - like it's a piece of food stuck there or something - so, I just have to keep his hands away from his mouth while he's eating. I'm going to give him and his girlfriends some supervised playtime tonight - I just hope they don't mess with his tongue and that he doesn't get too distraught that he can't lick and groom them. Speaking of grooming, I think I need to get a toothbrush or something. He's getting food all over and since he can't groom himself, he's getting kinda crusty.

His girlies will clean him up :)

I wouldn't let them stay together long enough. :( I'm too paranoid that the girls will mess with his tongue. I really hope it goes back in soon!!

With a soft bristled tooth brush and a little warm water, you can brush him and keep him looking OK. I do it with Jackie from time to time when Melee is being a slacker.

I'm glad he is doing better. They are smart little babies, and thus learn to compensate very well!

I swear his tongue is sticking out less today! But, Dr. Baillie wasn't in to let me know if he agreed - he had a family emergency so another vet gave Eugene his shots. That same vet will be giving his shots tomorrow, too - so hopefully she'll see some improvement.

Thats AWESOME Brenda!!!!

He's doing so well! He's eating (HPW, anyway), drinking, and even grooming himself all the best he can. I really think his tongue is less swollen - here are some pics for comparison (clickable thumbnails):

Day 1




Day 2




Day 3

Both my vet and the vet who saw him yesterday were in this morning and checked him out. Most of Eugene's tongue is much better. The tip, on the other hand, is dying. The vets believe it'll just die and fall off. They say that's okay. Anyone have other opinions about that?

AWWWW. I hate to hear that.


I would be very nervous since the tongue is just one muscle layer after another - infection could take over very easily.

By "dying" do you mean it is not dead yet? Is it necrotic?

The very tip is purple, nearly black - just the tip that's still sticking out of his mouth and that is just a very small amount at this point.

Brenda - I'm so sorry about eugene. I've been so wrapped up with Fivel that I never saw this about your baby. I feel so bad and guilty. I see he's doing a bit better. Poor, poor baby. Prayers for Eugene and you. I know you are exhausted and again I'm so sorry I never saw that you were going through hell. I feel like an awful friend as you've been so kind to me. Thoughts and prayers for you and Eugene.

Don't feel bad at all!!! I completely understand, you've been going through so much, yourself - I'm just glad Fivel is doing better. Thank you!

Brenda - How is Eugene today?

He's doing pretty well. Poor guy got dragged to the vet and then Petco and then WalMart and then sat at Midas with me for 3.5 hours while we figured out what all needed to be done to my Explorer to make it safe to drive the 2000 miles next week! Got a new muffler & my dad needs to change out my ball joints and do something with the rear differential this weekend or I'll be driving their new Escape to Texas! LOL! Eugene was an absolute angel the whole time. Dr. Baillie said his tongue is looking loads better and he still hopes the tip will just fall off on it's own or heal itself somehow as he doesn't want to amputate unless absolutely necessary.

Eugene ate so well last night - he even ate some corn and peas! All but the very tip of his tongue is working great! He's still lonely, but the vet thinks it's best to keep them separated for now unless I am there to supervise playtime, etc. Tomorrow is our last shots and vet check until we see Dr. Walsh next week - so, I'll be asking about oral antibiotics to bring home. They haven't even needed to anesthetize him since Monday because he's been putty for the ladies at the clinic. Dr. Baillie doesn't know if it's just him that Eugene gets all squiggly and ornery (well, as ornery as the sweetheart gets) for or if he just prefers the company of women. Lol. The lady vet who took care of him Tuesday and Wednesday just loved him and said what a pleasure it was working with him.

You will be taking Eugene with you to see Dr Walsh? That would be great for Eugene as I hear he's one of the best. I wish I had someone like that here but gliders are just not all that popular here so the Vets are really behind the times I think. As much as I thought my Vet was top notch I know better now. My mission is to do alot if talking with Vets in this area and come to the conclusion as to who is the most willing to learn more about glider care.

I took Fivel and Anon with me today to do a little grocery shopping and sometimes they's crab and it was funny watching the people's faces when they heard it.

It's so good to hear that Eugene is doing better but what a mystery this all is. No idea what caused this or anything. Will Eugene still be able to eat okay if he looses the tip of his tongue. Sorry for all the questions as this is really tough for you I'm sure. I know I was exhausted from staying up so much with Fivel so I know you must be too.

Evidently Eugene is a ladies man huh. That is cute. Good Luck tomorrow and I wishing and praying for the best for Eugene. I'll be thinking of you.

Thank you!! Val assured me that he would be fine without part of his tongue and it already seems like he is proving her right. I know what you mean about the vets - there aren't many around here (upper midwest) who will see gliders and those that do don't know much. My vet is amazing in that he researches and learns and seems to truly understand the gliders and admits when he doesn't know & is willing to learn. Dr. Baillie was excited to hear that I'll be getting all my gliders free exams from Dr. Walsh at the RRRoundup (don't think I mentioned who - but he was happy to hear that it was someone with a lot more experience!)- they made sure to tell me to get them copies of the exam papers/reports, etc...

Thank you so much! You and Fivel and Anon are in my thoughts and prayers. You are doing just wonderful with them and I truly believe that every stumble and crisis we have with these babies gets us closer to learning more about them and gets them closer to a better life!

I am soooo happy!!! The vet is VERY pleased with his progress. His tongue is barely sticking out now & he should be able to be back with his girls in a day or 2!

Day 4




Day 5




Day 6

I'm very excited and happy for you, can you tell?