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 Rejected Joey 7weeks oop

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JoaoMachado94



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Join date : 2013-04-07

PostSubject: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:46 am

Well hello! I'm new here.
I'm João, from Portugal, and I have 4 gliders now.
Cookie, the father, he's almost 2 years old and he's been with me for about an year.
Megan, the mother, the same age as Cookie, but she's been with me for about 6months.
They had 2 joeys, Hannah and Lily, yesterday they made 7weeks oop.
Lily is a rejected glider. I only noticed she was rejected when she was 2weeks oop.
I've been taking care of her since.
I followed this plan Suz's Help for rejected gliders, more or less.
I've noticed that Lily is a little bigger than before, as suppose to, she's more energetic and climbs well. However she's almost 1/3 of the size her sister is, and that's what worries me.
I'm registered in GliderGossip, and after seeing pictures of her, they sent me here, saying that she needed help right away!
Tomorrow I will take her to the ONLY exotic vet I have in my area, however I don't think they can do anything to help me. Cookie was the first glider they saw... and take care of, and it was only for cutting his nails. I really dont trust them to handle such a tiny creature as Lily.
About where she's "living" now.
Using and aquarium with a hot-water bottle, I made an "incubator", it was the best I could do to keep her warm. I boil the water 3x/4x times per day, but not letting it be too hot, so Lily doesn't end up with a burn. I use 1 fleece blanket to cover the hot-water bottle, and the top part of one of my pajamas as her "pouch". The heat isn't too much, and it's well conserved.
When she was almost 6weeks oop, I started giving her 1part of Aptamil HA replacer milk to 1part of my adult glider food (LGRS soup + fruits/veggies/proteins, all well mixed), notice I'm not giving the food in pieces, I mix it all well and I still give it to her with a 3mL dropper. Each 3/4 hours per day, but NOT overnight, and 1mL/2mL each time.
UPDATE* - About the overnight thing, I will start today, giving her food also overnight. The only reason I didn't was because I sleep 6 hours each day, if that much, so I thought it wasn't really do anything.

My questions are:
- What am I doing wrong?
- The food I give her, and the amounts are okay?
- Since she's 7weeks oop, should I give her solid food? If so, how and how many times per day?
- Should I put her in a small cage or let her stay in the "incubator"?


Please don't be rude or ignorant, try to answer it clearly so I can understand it! I'm a new glider owner, and with 0% experience in taking care of rejected joeys s: And they were my first joeys... I'm doing the best I can.
If anything is written in a weird way, remenber I'm Portuguese, so I might give some errors.

Pictures of Lily 6 weeks old (she's a bit larger now):


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USMom
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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:47 pm

First, welcome! All questions are welcome here, and you won't get rudeness. I don't have experience with rejected joeys, so can't offer much help. As she is 7 weeks OOP you can wean her from the incubator and start letting her have a cage. She does need to eat at night, that is their normal routine. You should also start giving her larger meals, less often. She needs to be at a single feeding soon. 8 weeks is when they begin to be weaned from momma. Watch what the other joey is doing, for meals, to know what is right for timing.
On her size, rejected joeys do tend to be a bit smaller, so I wouldn't be completely worried about it.
There are many people here with a lot more experience than I, who will be along shortly to assist.

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Chris R

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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:45 am

Joey is small for age, being that small, not positive it can thermoregulate...

Didnt know what Aptamil was so I looked it up, it appears to be baby formula... which human infant formula has iron added (which is something we dont want in gliders) and joeys need a different formula than infants

Here are my suggestions.... Treat this joey like its the size for its age, from the pictures I would have guessed 2-3 weeks OOP,

Try to see if it is able to thermoregulate by putting it into a pouch with no heat source for 15-30 minutes, if it is able to maintain its body heat, it is thermoregulating at least a little bit, check again at hour mark, if its not chilled then you can do away with the heat source

Here is recipe I have used with great success in hand rearing joeys... 1 part Kitten or Puppy Milk replacer (mixed as directed), 1 part heavy cream and 1 part water (only make up enough to feed for 2 days at a time and refrigerate) although warming the amount you are going to feed before feeding..If you can find a pro-biotic like Biopro or the like, it is an excellent add-in to formula (it will help get "the gut" back in line, help with digestion and absorbtion) but I would say to add about 1/2cc of it on top of the made above formula...because the joey has been on another forumula I would make both up, and put them together in 50/50 mix (ie 2ccs of your formula to 2ccs of above formula) feed this every 3-4 hours, if stools get to soft, increase the water by double what you have been using, if to hard, cut the water by half.... if joey tolerates it well (no diahrrea or hard stools, no bloat) .. in 2 days make up a new mix that is 3/4 of mix above to 1/4 of the mix you have been using, do this for another 2 days and then go to full strength of above formula...Feed like this (the full strength formula for 1-2 weeks depending on how the joey is tolerating it, gaining weight etc).

When joey is having good weight gain, more energy etc, you can start the weaning process onto your LGRS soup (joeys from wean to about 6 months old dont eat alot of the fruits and veggies) although it will be needed to be offered to eat as a pick up food in cage during the weaning phase...

To wean from formula onto LGRS soup.. the above formula with add of 1/4 of LGRS soup (ie if you have 8cc of formula made up add another 2 cc of LGRS on top of it and feed that) do this for 5 days to one week, by now you should be feeding/offering larger amounts and larger intervals about every 6 hours
2nd week out make up 6 cc of formula adding 2cc of LGRS feeding every 7-8 hours.. 3 weeks (or 15 days out) it should be 50% formula to 50% LGRS soup and this is when you start offering up the fruits and veggies as a finger food in cage feeding two times, morning and night
4 weeks (or 20 days out) is 3/4 part LGRS to 1/4 part made formula feeding twice a day, 3-4 days after this go to full strenght LRGS and fruits and veggies feeding once a day

If this is confusing I can either talk to you via phone (just shoot me a PM here) or if you have a facebook account, I am Chris Reihner and pic is of a redhead holding a blue and gold macaw, send me a friend request and we can chat via offline or PMing there... I was asked by someone to come over here and help and my computer has issues downloading forumotion sites so it took me 7 tries over and about 15 minutes to get the site to load



Last edited by Chris R on Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:53 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : excuse typos, rough night, please feel free to fix them for me LOL)
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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:38 am

Chris has given you some good advice.

Do you have a weight on this joey? the joey does look very small to me. Is she active?

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JoaoMachado94



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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:55 pm

Thanks Chris :)
Okay so let me see if I understood all correct.
I'll check if she's thermoregulating, to now if I should or not keep her in the incubator.

I'll do a new food for her:
- 1part cat/puppie milk replacer;
- 1 part heavy cream;
- 1 part warm water.


In the first day I'll give her 25% of your receipt to 75% of the one I use now (1part Aptamil + 1part LGRS).
Then 2nd day 50% / 50% ; 3rd day 75% / 25% ; 4th day 100% your receipt.
Give 1mL - 2mL every 3-4 hours, for 1-2 weeks. After that, if she's going fine (and I will keep you guys informed), I'll change to full LGRS soup.

This in case I don't find the pro-biotic.
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JoaoMachado94



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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:08 pm

Ah no, I don't have a weight I could give you... She's very active actually!
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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:20 pm

I read the instructions as increasing the ratio of the new recipe/your current recipe every TWO days, not the next day. That's why Chris suggests making 2 days worth of the mix at a time. And then don't forget to watch her stools to see if you need to adjust water in the mix (loose, hard, etc.).

Keep us up on how she is doing! Hope all goes well for this little one Very Happy

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JoaoMachado94



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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:52 pm

I think i'm not following... Sorry!
Are you saying that, I just add his receipt to mine? Because mixing infant milk replacer and cat/puppie, sounds weird
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Chris R

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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:45 pm

Yes, It needs to be done in every two day incremints as posted...We dont want to make the joey sick with a sudden change, so what we are basically doing is "weaning it over to a good recipe" that will meet its nutritional needs far better than what you were using :)
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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:12 pm

What they are saying is that instead of this:

Quote :
In the first day I'll give her 25% of your receipt to 75% of the one I use now (1part Aptamil + 1part LGRS).
Then 2nd day 50% / 50% ; 3rd day 75% / 25% ; 4th day 100% your receipt.
Give 1mL - 2mL every 3-4 hours, for 1-2 weeks. After that, if she's going fine (and I will keep you guys informed), I'll change to full LGRS soup.


You do this:

Day 1 : 25% of our recipe to 75% of the one you are using now.
Day 2 : Same as day 1

Day 3: 50% to 50% with each recipe
Day 4: Same as day 3

Day 5: 75% of our recipe to 25% of the one you are using now.
Day 6: Same as day 5

Day 7: 100% of our recipe


Does that make more sense?

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~*~ Val ~*~
Passionate = one step down from crazy

We can only be said to be alive in those moments when our hearts are conscious of our treasures - Thornton Wilder

We are what we are, no matter what we might wish to be, or pretend to be. - Dean Koontz in The Face

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JoaoMachado94



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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:32 am

Yes! Thank you :)

About the milk replacer and the heavy cream.
I think I read somewhere that cat milk replacer harm sugar gliders by having a high content of fat and lactose.
I'll buy today the puppie one, if I can find, since yesterday I couldn't.
And for the heavy cream, this is what I'll give her:

"Brand: Mimosa
Nata cremosa: Heavy cream"
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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:07 am

A veterinarian or pet store should have Puppy Milk replacer.

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JoaoMachado94



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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:25 am

I went to a veterinarian, and a girl that was there gave me cat milk replacer, for free! She said she had it for her cat, but doesn't need it anymore.
I've already made the food and start giving it to my joey :) Hope it doesn't matter if it's cat or dog milk... Since for dog I had go to a little far, and would have to spend 40$ for 3 sachets.
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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:14 am

Actually cat/kitten does have a slightly higher content of fats than puppy replacer but marsupials require higher fats esp after 2 weeks OOP (why I have you adding the heavy cream) so thats perfect :) and yes, the cream you purchased will work perfectly also... GOOD LUCK! ... Hopefully we can get this little one turned around and on the right track :)
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JoaoMachado94



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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:04 am

Oh okay! I was worried about giving it to her since in GliderGossip, everyone who replied to my posts were agaisnt me using it.
Thanks for your help Chris! I started giving it, and she seems to love it! Hope all goes fine now :)
I'll keep you guys updated each 3/4 days.
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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:42 am

Seems this joey is improving as he posted on GG. I asked him to come over and give us an update.


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Chris R

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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:19 am

Yah, the joey does seem to be improving... I actually went over to GG as that seems to be the place he is asking the most questions and I am helping him over there (it takes me a few tries to get onto this forumotion as computer doesnt like them for some reason)
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JoaoMachado94



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PostSubject: Re: Rejected Joey 7weeks oop   Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:09 am

Yup, she's improving :) Thanks for your help Chris!
Sorry for not keeping this post update
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