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 I need opinions. NO clue where to post this. Keiko's story-

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RandE

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PostSubject: I need opinions. NO clue where to post this. Keiko's story-   Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:38 am

I have a female that has suffered a series of unfortunate events. This last June I found a pretty nasty (what looked like) a puncture wound under her left arm extending into her patagium. The hole was deep it split the skin and you could see her muscle structure along her body. We took her to the e-vet upon finding the injury and was given chlorhexadine (sorry for poor spelling) and baytril and sent home. I kept her with her cagemate at the time thinking that separating her would cause more stress. Well it turns out he was insistant upon "helping" her with it and promptly made it worse. We then separated her into a hospital cage. We had an appt for a glider neuter with our regular vet the same day so we took Keiko along so our regular vet could check her out as well. She said that what the e-vet prescribed was good and to keep up with that. Washing the wound 2X per day and baytril 1 or 2 times a day (I can't remember offhand it was months ago). We carried on with that treatment until the wound looked healed and the baytril was gone. I thought about introducing her back to her cagemate. That same day I went to recheck the would and found that she had split her belly open about 2 inches horizontally right above her cloaca, and it was severely infected. We rushed her back to our regular vet who told us to wash it with the same stuff, she prescribed enrofloxicilin, and also had us apply a topical silver sulfadiazine to the affected area. After a month or so of treatment that wound also healed. Wish I had a picture of it. Our vet said that since the original wound was so deep along her arm that the infection traveled downward where it became trapped when the first wound healed. She probably was in pain and opened the area up herself to find relief... poor baby.

After I was SURE the wound was healed I reintroduced her to her cagemate. It was a very happy reunion. This was about 2 months or longer after the initial separation.

Well last week, he gave her a "welcome home" mating injury on her neck. I left her in with him hoping he would leave it along- of course not. So I separated her again. Washed it with the chlorhex and put on the same silver sulfadiazine ointment. It was looking better. Then, I went to was it again two nights ago and a quarter sized piece of flesh fell off in my hand. EEEWWW. The wound is larger and open again. It was also looking infected. I started her on the enro again along with washing and ointment.

That has been Keiko's wound story since last June, now the part where I need advice.

Keiko has always been a chronic eye-brow overgroomer. She and her cagemate have always had a bit of a...dysfunctional... relationship. They've always bickered in their sleeping pouch and Keiko always overgrooms when it starts to get worse. Since this new mating wound- which was bad before the flesh fell off- and since her original wound was really of unknown origin (he COULD have caused it) would it be wise to put them back together? Or should I pair Keiko up with a submissive female instead? I would try neutered male, but all our neutered males continue mating and I don't want her having anymore injuries. I just don't know what to do. They SEEM happy at first glance, but Keiko is obviously stressed about something in that environment. I want her to be happy and leave her eyebrows alone and stop getting injured dang it!

This is very long, thank you for your patience getting through it.
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PostSubject: Re: I need opinions. NO clue where to post this. Keiko's story-   Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:56 am

If it were ME, I would use Quickderm on the wounds, but we have had this conversation with you before.

Also, if it were me, I WOULD put her with a younger neutered male and house them in a separate room from your breeding gliders. Either way, it seems it is time to separate her from the other cage mate permanently.

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RandE

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PostSubject: Re: I need opinions. NO clue where to post this. Keiko's story-   Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:41 pm

Thanks for the help. I understand you like the quickderm but our vet likes this Silver sulfadizaine stuff and it works really well.
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RandE

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PostSubject: Re: I need opinions. NO clue where to post this. Keiko's story-   Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:05 pm

Also, why would you try another neutered male? as opposed to a female? we only have ex-breeder neutered males and they all still go through the mating motions when the girls are in heat. wouldn't that be added stress on her?

i'm just curious to the reasoning behind one over the other.
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PostSubject: Re: I need opinions. NO clue where to post this. Keiko's story-   Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:29 pm

I would not try an ex-breeding male. I would get a neutered male who has never bred (and is younger than her) and put with her. In the long run, my experience has been that this is the best pairing for this type of situation. I'm just speaking from my experience here, not any studies or science or anything. That is also why I said that I would put them in a room that does NOT have any intact males or breeding pairs in it.

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~*~ Val ~*~
Passionate = one step down from crazy

We can only be said to be alive in those moments when our hearts are conscious of our treasures - Thornton Wilder

We are what we are, no matter what we might wish to be, or pretend to be. - Dean Koontz in The Face

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PostSubject: Re: I need opinions. NO clue where to post this. Keiko's story-   Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:10 pm

Does you vet even know about Quick Derm? Just because the vet says use something doesn't mean it is the right thing to use. I agree with Val I would use the Quick Derm and put her with an neutered male that has never bred and is a little younger. I think being in a room with breeders is what might be stressing her.
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PostSubject: Re: I need opinions. NO clue where to post this. Keiko's story-   Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:45 pm

I agree with using Quickderm - it's amazing. Good luck, Allie. *hugs*
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PostSubject: Re: I need opinions. NO clue where to post this. Keiko's story-   Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:23 pm

Adding to say, I would have the vet test the infection to see what it is, and what it will respond to. At this point, with this many infections, you need to work hard to clear it up for good. There is a good chance of having to use 2 antibiotics to do this. You do NOT want a medically resistant strain of infection in your house.
Second, start quarantine protocol with this girl. Keep her alone until she is fully healed, and you are sure she's fully healed. Wash between handling her and her stuff and handling your other gliders.
The one glider I had, that had skin fall off, had staph and was on antibiotics and VERY ill for 2 months. There were times that we came very close to losing him. This, even if it's not staph, is a very sick little girl. And it needs to be taken very seriously.

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RandE

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PostSubject: Re: I need opinions. NO clue where to post this. Keiko's story-   Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:40 am

Yes, thank you for your help. I understand what you mean with the neutered male.

My vet has not heard of Quickderm before I mentioned it to her at one of our visits with her. She's willing to look into it- but this stuff has shown her the best results for treating wounds in gliders and other small animals. It works awesomely for us. While we are willing to give Quickderm a try sometime, we are more comfortable using what has worked well for us in the past- just because it isn't something you've used before doesn't mean it's wrong either.

She is quarantined and I went off my vets recommendation to start her back up on the antibiotics again for 7 days. We will re evaluate then- as of today it's looking MUCH better. Without seeing the injury before the piece of flesh fell off- she thinks it was already damaged either by the mating wound itself or made worse by her cagemate messing with it- already dead tissue that took it's natural course and fell off, the underlying injury looks very healthy now.

This is why I had no idea where to post this thread. lol. It started out with her injuries but ultimately I needed help with ideas of where to put her when she's healed- where she won't continue to be harmed. I'm confident in both my vets and my own ability to care for her injuries (yet again). It's afterward that the advice is needed. I just wanted you all to have the back story to see where I am coming from.

So thank you all again for the advice. I really do appreciate it- hopefully my poor little Keiko won't have to deal with this anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: I need opinions. NO clue where to post this. Keiko's story-   Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:42 am

Quote :
just because it isn't something you've used before doesn't mean it's wrong either.
Allie dear, in the world of sugar glider wound care, you aren't going to find a more experienced group of people than those here. I, personally, have a great deal of experience using the SS on wounds. Years ago, it was one of the things I preferred to use. If you would review this thread: http://thesweetspot.forumotion.net/t623-various-treatments-for-wounds You would see a whole list of treatments for wounds - every single one of which I have personally used.
Everyone has their own favorite method. I have tried them all. At any given moment, I will have 1-4 open wounds in my home due to the nature of the work I do here. So, I am constantly searching for what works BEST, not just what works. I have found that there are times that Vetericyn works really well on wounds and there are times that QuickDerm is hands down the best wound treatment. These are newer things. Treating with Silvadine (silver sulfadiazine) is nothing new. It has been used on wounds for a very long time. Those of us here on TSS spend our time learning the newest and best treatments for many things that plague gliders. When you come here, you will always be encouraged to pursue the best course of treatment based upon the experience of those who have been doing this a very long time and who spend their time researching the best treatments available. You don't have to try any of our recommendations. But, please, do not assume that we don't have experience with what you are using. Many of us were treating wounds back when Vetericyn and QuickDerm were not available. Some of us participated in the very first trials using some of the things on that list on sugar gliders. We have plenty of experience with SS. Our service to you is to recommend something better that that even - esp. since you have posted before about repeated wounds in your home.

-----------♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥-----------
~*~ Val ~*~
Passionate = one step down from crazy

We can only be said to be alive in those moments when our hearts are conscious of our treasures - Thornton Wilder

We are what we are, no matter what we might wish to be, or pretend to be. - Dean Koontz in The Face

My favorite color is orange - I'm the normal one.
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