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eschiavoni2

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PostSubject: reeps diet?   Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:02 pm

I recently switched to this diet, because my guys would not touch the bml anymore. I was just wondering what people's thoughts were on this diet?

What confuses me is the diet itself is like a 1.2:1 ratio, but then Teresa suggests feeding some high phosphorus fruits n veggies. I have been feeding the diet with yogurt 3 times a week and high calcium fruits and veggies instead of the ones she recommended. I used the GG recipe thing and added my fruits/veggies to the diet and it brought the ratio up quite a bit. Is this ok? When I talk to Teresa she basically just says not to worry so much and to just feed healthy items. Which I agree, but I still want them to get proper amount of calcium.

Any input would be great!
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:44 pm

I haven't measured Ca:P ratios in years and have never had HLP in my colonies. That said, I believe if you feed a varied diet, they will get what they need. Others might disagree.

Don't forget that you can also "overdo" calcium as with any other mineral.

http://www.aakp.org/aakp-library/too-much-calcium/
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:14 pm

I know calcium can be overdone. I have been calculating to make sure its not. They seem to like the reeps diet and its easy to make. Is there any diet calculators other than the one on GG? I just want one to make things easier, and seeing how GG doesn't have that many food items I can't use it for everything. I hate sitting down and doing the calculations. I know diets shouldn't be complex, but I want a good diet with lots of variety...
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:34 pm

http://www.gliderkids.com/references.html

That's a good ratio calculator.

And, here is her links page. She has several things to look through. It's good that you are trying to make your diet as varied as possible!

http://www.gliderkids.com/contact.html
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:58 pm

For me, there are too many issues in the past that have popped up regarding the Reeps diet for me to feel comfortable using it or ever recommending it to others.

This is why it is not listed here in our diet section.

Reeps diet is very low in absorbable calcium. So, over a period of time, any glider eating this diet will lose bone mass rather than build or maintain it. You have to be very, very careful that you are feeding fruits and veggies to counter act this with strong sources of absorbable calcium.

In addition to having this poor Ca:P ratio (which I do not worry about either, and I DO regularly treat gliders with HLP), it is also super high in protein. I very strongly believe that we feed our gliders way too much protein in most of our diets. This might just be part of the reason that kidney issues are so prevalent in necropsy studies (currently #4 in leading cause of death for gliders).

The creator of this diet - a diet with an inverse Ca:P ratio - has claimed that she had two gliders die of broken bones. I have treated many, many, many broken bones here in my home and have had no deaths so far - not from broken bones. Teresa did not have any necropsies, so she is just guessing that they died of broken bones. My gliders have necropsies so I KNOW what they died of. Anyway, the point is that a glider fed a nutritious diet will not die simply from a broken leg. I can say that "broken bone" is NOT a reason for death. If that is all it took, my Venus, Nugget & Cheddar would all be dead, dead, dead from their broken bones. Yet, this was not the cause of death for those that have passed. Nope, a broken bone will not, in and of itsself, cause death. There was something else going on there, and sadly, we will never know what it was. Some speculate that this diet was part of the problem here.


So, I am curious - what lead you to choose this diet? What did you find attractive about it?


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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:11 pm

Thanks for the info, Val! Even I learn something new every day!

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eschiavoni2

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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:22 pm

I was looking over diets and Teresa raved about it. She showed me before and after photos of her Suggie Reepacheap (sp?). I won't use bml because they hate it, and I won't use hpw complete/plus. I was thinking about PML, but was convinced reeps was a good diet. I like your diet, but I don't know if some of that stuff would go to waste. I have 4 adults and occasionally joeys.
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:26 pm

What about Priscillas diet? I know reeps was started for a very sick glider.
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:31 pm

I don't want to do pp because I don't like sprinkling the supplement on, and she suggested blending the whole diet. I don't want everything to be mush, I feel like that would be boring for them.
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:00 am

Why blend Priscillas diet. I just mix it together with a spoon and it has a lot of different textures in it. Now I will say that I add my veggies to it daily so he gets a variety not the same ones every time I feed..
Why is it a problem to sprinkle the vitamins on? Those vitamins have a lot of good things in them. Just asking not being mean here!

I agree I would not fed Feed Reep's either. There are better diets avalible with more glider owners using them.
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:27 am

I don't want to sprinkle it on because I have feel like they could eat too much/too little of the supplement. Priscilla told me to blend it so the vitamin is mixed in (thats what she does).

I went with reeps because of the pictures she showed. She said she had 300 or so different gliders eat it, and all of them ate it well/didnt have any issues with the diet.
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:46 am

Reeps was originally designed for a sick glider. Then someone decided to release it to the public. I don't think it is a good diet for every day use. The extra calcium and minerals in it are for getting a sick glider healthy again. If you have have healthy gliders to begin with there is no need to give extra vitamins and minerals.
There are other good diets out there to feed your glider.
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:57 am

Oops I thought you meant blend the Priscilla's entire mixture and all I could imagine was a pile of mushy food for them, Sorry I misunderstood that you meant blend the vitamins into the mixture. I do mix the vitamins in the Priscilla's also. JMO if you have 2 gliders eating it then the first one up might eat all the vitamins off the top as they do really seem to like the taste of them.
Come to think of it I tasted them and they are kind of yummy!!

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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:22 am

If you are worried about them getting too much/too little of the vitamins with Priscilla's diet, then there is no way you would not worry about this with my diet.


Many, many people have fed Priscilla's diet for many years with great results. So, I always think it is interesting when someone claims that sprinkling the vitamins on is concerning for them. They are DESIGNED to be sprinkled on (or mixed in). She gives an exact amount needed per glider.

I can say with certainty that Priscilla's diet is one of the best ones out there for gliders at this time.

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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:27 am

What about the Original HPW? I believe Karen still has the Wombaroo Protein Supplement for sale to make this and it has been tested and approved and used over years with great success?

(Just throwing another good option out there is all.)
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:03 am

I suggested the original HPW to her yesterday in a PM. Since she already has the Wombaroo, I thought it would be a great option and easy for her.

But, you know how it is.... someone gets something or some idea in their heads and that is that.

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~*~ Val ~*~
Passionate = one step down from crazy

We can only be said to be alive in those moments when our hearts are conscious of our treasures - Thornton Wilder

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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:46 am

It is what it is Val, you know how that goes. Thank goodness we all have freedom of choices and opinions.

Im just glad that there is more than one option out there for all us glider owners to choose from. :-)

In the end, we all just need to know we are doing the very best we can for our gliders and not on how we personally feel towards the other glider owners in general.

Val, in case you havent been told in a while.... I for one appreciate you being around to help folks when and where you can.
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:30 pm

There were several people on GC that didn't like PP's diet because their gliders would either eat all of the vitamins or not touch them at all. Another owner who had 5 or 6 suggies said that a lot of food was wasted in between batches. So it wasn't so much the vitamins that concerned me. It was more the fact that so much gets wasted. I only have 4 adults and on occasion joeys. I don't want a diet where a lot will go to waste. Which is why Val's diet sounds better IMO since less would go to waste.

And Val, I left out the fact that my gliders don't like scrambled eggs?? I tried a batch of HPW in the past (when I first got gliders), and they wouldn't touch it until I did hard boiled eggs. I don't know if it was just coincidence or what?? So I was considering PML until I was out of the wombaroo powder, and then switching to Val's diet. But is it bad to switch diets a lot??? I really just want something fun that has a lot of different textures/flavors for them.
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:42 pm

You could make your HPW with hard boiled eggs.

It is not a great idea to switch diets a lot. This is why it is important to ask questions and do research BEFORE starting a diet instead of after.

If you were convinced enough that reeps diet was a good one for your gliders a few days ago, not much should have changed - that is, unless the only research you did with it was to ask Teresa about it. If you were not totally convinced that reeps was a great diet for your gliders, then you should never have started using it.

Diet is your choice. None of us can or will make the choice for you. We all make our diet choices for different reasons.


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Passionate = one step down from crazy

We can only be said to be alive in those moments when our hearts are conscious of our treasures - Thornton Wilder

We are what we are, no matter what we might wish to be, or pretend to be. - Dean Koontz in The Face

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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:06 pm

The research I did was on GG, and GC, and anything I could pull up on the internet. Then someone said to post on here that I would get a response. They didn't tell me WHY to post on here, I don't know if people on GG and GC were afraid to say anything about the diet or what.

Plus, there's always so much controversy with every diet that I didn't think anything of it. Karen and Eddie from GC said it was a good diet as well as a bunch of other people. Anyone who said they used it in the past said they liked it and only switched because they were no longer buying wombaroo powder or something to that extent. And anyone who was currently using it said they loved it. I didn't have a single person say that they didn't like it for one reason or another until I came on here lol.

I voiced my opinion about the CA:P ratio because I did think that her method of feeding high phosphorus fruits/veggies was a dumb move considering that reeps was only a 1.2:1 ratio to begin with. So I was feeding the reeps with high calcium fruits/veggies.

Overall I was convinced that it was a good diet, but my brain told me to go with the high calcium fruits/veggies instead of listening to her. I calculated the CA:P ratios to make sure I wasn't 'over doing' the calcium (which I wasn't).

Now I'm convinced that it could be a good diet, or it could be a bad one. I don't know if the gliders that broke their bones and died were rescues or hers from the get go. So I don't know if anything can be directly tied to her diet or not.

My gliders seem to love it and they do have MORE energy than they did on the BML. Even my chunky 6.5 year old has been a bit more 'youthful'. She used to just sleep in her pouch, lay in her hammock, or eat in her wheel (a wheel meant for running? PSH! It's for eating!! lol). But since the diet change she actually plays again (I have jingle balls dangling above a corner hammock.. she was on her back batting at them like a cat last night!!!). So... IMO the reeps (with the high calcium fruits/veggies) is better than BML, but now I'm worried that it's not a very good diet.

I know nobody can make the decision for me. And you have all given some great diet suggestions. I am changing the diet today after talking with my vet. I will let you all know what I choose and if they do even better on the new diet than the reeps diet. Thanks.

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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:17 pm

eschiavoni2 wrote:
I don't know if people on GG and GC were afraid to say anything about the diet or what.

Anyone who said they used it in the past said they liked it and only switched because they were no longer buying wombaroo powder or something to that extent. And anyone who was currently using it said they loved it. I didn't have a single person say that they didn't like it for one reason or another until I came on here lol.

I want to first say that, yes, publicly I do not like putting Reep's down. It has a compelling story about a glider who disliked honey finally becoming healthy and coming back from the brink of death.

Yesterday you PM'd me on GG and I let you know some of the areas of Reep's that aren't so glamorous and why my glider's were switched to a new diet. Then I proceeded to tell you how they changed positively afterwards. I really didn't think I was wasting my time writing that multi-paragraphed letter to you. Anyway I will say it again, Reep's is fine for gliders that need to become acclimated to proper glider diets if they previously had been on pellets because I think it helps them get use to sweets but over the long hall a diet that provides more variety or allows for it should be exchanged for Reep's. I do hope that you proceed and you do choose a diet that offers more variety.
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:57 pm

Sorry, I didn't see your message yet. Ok, so you are one person who said some not so great things about it. But this was after I was told to post here lol. During my research everyone said good things about it or said they changed for better variety, or they were no longer buying Wombaroo powder, etc.

I am going shopping today to get supplies for the new diet.
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:17 pm

eschiavoni2 wrote:
I know nobody can make the decision for me. And you have all given some great diet suggestions. I am changing the diet today after talking with my vet. I will let you all know what I choose and if they do even better on the new diet than the reeps diet. Thanks.

So what did your vet say about diets and what one are you changing too and what was your deciding factor on the new diet?
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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:47 pm

I have used Reep's diet, with good results. Having said that I HAVE to qualify it with I did add some things in for it to be used specifically for MY glider, that was VERY ill. Reeps wasn't designed to be a "diet" per se, but for a very sick glider that wouldn't eat anything else. Once my babies were back on track, health wise, I went back to my regular diet.

Adding: You were likely sent here, as this board is very specifically for glider health and husbandry. The other boards are more general.

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eschiavoni2

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PostSubject: Re: reeps diet?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:31 pm

BCChins wrote:
eschiavoni2 wrote:
I know nobody can make the decision for me. And you have all given some great diet suggestions. I am changing the diet today after talking with my vet. I will let you all know what I choose and if they do even better on the new diet than the reeps diet. Thanks.

So what did your vet say about diets and what one are you changing too and what was your deciding factor on the new diet?

She chose the following diets based on nutritional value, and what she thought would work best for me and my gliders. She also chose them based on personal experience, research, and other people's experiences with these diets. She never said any of the other diets were bad though.

OK, here are the diets she liked best:
PML
Val's Diet
Priscilla Price's Diet

She uses PML currently for her gliders, and has since she got them (I believe she said 7-8 years ago??). She likes how it's the closest thing to the original Leadbeaters Diet. She also likes the results (health, coat, etc).

She likes PP because of the variety, and the success with this diet. I believe it was a friend of hers that uses this diet? And her gliders overall health, coat, etc. was fantastic as well.

She LOVES Val's Diet, and said she will be changing to this diet lol. She loves the combination of nutrients that are in this diet. Now I have the memory of a goldfish (not even that good of one), so sorry if I get some of this wrong. But said she likes the flaxseed oil because of the omega fatty acids and antioxidants. She loves the nutritional value that greens offer like the calcium, fiber.. and I believe some other vitamins? The list could go on for why she loved Val's Diet, but it was hilarious when she looked it over. Her eyes literally lit up like a kid on Christmas haha. She thought it was a fantastic diet because of the amount of nutrients without limitations. She never heard of this diet until I brought it in, and said although she had no experience with this diet.. she liked it because it contains all the nutrients necessary for fuzz butts to thrive.

Sorry if a lot of this doesn't make sense. Allergies are REALLY bad so I'm in a total fog. Thinking, let alone formulating sentences that make sense, is quite difficult!!

Val, my vet says to tell you you're awesome lol.
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