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 I have something I need to get off my chest....

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Adri



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PostSubject: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:43 am

What makes someone qualified to create a glider diet? It seems like anyone today is qualified to do so and all of a sudden you have all these people feeding this diet....What gives here? I have owned gliders for more years than I can even keep track of yet "I" do not feel qualified to create a diet. I feed a modified diet yes, but my modification only replaces water and it add nutrients. As a breeder what I do with the diet works for "ME" and my gliders. The changes I made have highly improved the overall appearance of my gliders and I have much larger joeys overall as well. With this said, I do feel we may see increased diet related issues in the months to come. This really concerns me, what bothers me even more is that these so called new diets and "ways of feeding" are becoming increasingly popular on GC which is filled with newbies. When the poop hits the fan and it will!!! They will claim of I feed XYZ diet and that is the problem! NO!!!! You are the problem not the diet as it was written. Does anyone else see this as a problem or is it that I am EXTRA touchy today?????
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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:23 am

I see it lots but I really feel what I choose to feed or how is up to me and what you do is up to you.
I have seen gliders that have been on x diet for years and y diet for years and NO "approved" diet for years and honestly most are healthy and look just fine so I am not gonna gripe about it.

I also modify my gliders diet and DON'T feed it every night either but I don't tell anyone else to modify or diversify. My kids, my food..your kids, your food.
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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:06 am

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1040199/Dry_HPW_Question#Post1040199

THIS is insane...who is making this mix for her? There are ingredients in powdered eggs to keep them good, in order to mix them with the HPW ALL of these *new* things in the powdered eggs have to come into play and you need a QUALIFIED company, that works with processing foods to be able to figure out what is needed in order to make this work CORRECTLY.

I have sent Celeste an email asking her to take the HPW name OFF her mix as she has it since this is NOT the HPW Diet as it was written. I do NOT want people to come back at a later date and say well my glider was messed up due to the HPW diet.

Folks, I PROMISE you it is NOT as easy as gathering some powdered eggs and toss it in the mix and viola!! There is SOOO much more to it....not to mention, has ANY testing been done on this to see how the gliders process it???
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Anita Rae

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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:08 pm

The only ingredient in powdered eggs is....eggs
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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:29 pm

One site

Quote :
Ingredients: Whole Eggs, less than 2% sodium silico aluminate (added as an anti-caking agent)


Another site


Quote :
Our powdered egg mix (dehydrated egg mix) is mostly whole egg powder with a small amount of powdered milk and vegetable oil which has been perfectly blended into the powder.

Another Site
Quote :
Ingredients: A homogenized and pasteurized blend of whole egg, non fat milk, vegetable oil and salt. Contains dairy and egg.

I guess it all depends on who you are getting them from and how they are made....Often times there are other *additives* put into powdered eggs, making them more than just .....eggs
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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:06 pm

Peggy, those are powdered egg mixes and should be labeled as such. Powdered eggs are just dehydrated eggs.
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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:16 pm

The Very first one, was the one that Celeste has personally told me is in her powdered eggs that she adds to the HPW. There are so many variables, and THAT is my concern. When one starts saying you can use xyz because the one *they* are thinking of is *pure* yet someone else who doesnt know them comes along and uses *tbl*it throws things off, no matter how *simple* it seems to be to the average reader.

As I stated on other places Anita, I really have NO issue with Powdered eggs being added to the diet IF PROPER measures, tests and procedures are followed. That isnt for our benefit but for the long term benefit to the gliders that we choose to feed this stuff to.

http://store.honeyvillegrain.com/powderedwholeeggscan.aspx


Quote :
Honeyville's Powdered Whole Eggs are produced though a special process designed to provide a free flowing powder that has been pasteurized for your safety. Originally developed for use in the military, our whole egg powder, when blended with water, reconstitutes into a product similar to fresh whipped eggs. These reconstituted eggs may then be used as a direct substitute for fresh eggs. One 2.25 pound can of Powdered Whole Eggs is equivalent to about 81 to 90 Large Fresh Whole Eggs. Our whole egg powder is non-perishable and requires no refrigeration and is ideal for camping, travel, and long-term food storage. This product may be stored for up to 12 months opened, and 5 to 10 years in airtight sealed cans.

Powdered eggs have a MUCH longer *shelf life* than a normal egg, this tells me that there has to be some sort of additive to allow that to take affect correct? That is all I am asking, for the PROPER tests and breakdowns to be done by people who are experienced in this field to do so before it is offered to the public for other gliders consumption.
Dont throw it out there just because it is convenient.
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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:22 pm

Also I wanted to add this....

Quote :
Once Opened, How Long Will Powdered Eggs Last?
Stored in the absence of oxygen and placed in a cool storage environment, powdered eggs have a storage life of 5 to 10 years. Once a container of powdered eggs has been opened, it is comparable to any other dehydrated dairy product and shelf-life would be measured in weeks or a month. Many people opt to refrigerate the remaining portion or only open as small a container as possible. If the goal is to keep the remaining powdered eggs long-term, we recommend that you re-pack the remaining portion in a smaller container with an oxygen absorber. Keep in mind that the eggs will only store as well as the condition of the original product - and therefore, should be free of moisture and oxygen.

So if people buy a 250 gram of powder from Celeste and it has the powdered eggs in it, are these people made aware of this? That they will need to use it in a months time or have a food sealer handy?

Once again, I am truly only trying to think of the gliders here. Nothing more, Nothing less.
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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:27 pm

srlb wrote:

Powdered eggs have a MUCH longer *shelf life* than a normal egg, this tells me that there has to be some sort of additive to allow that to take affect correct? That is all I am asking, for the PROPER tests and breakdowns to be done by people who are experienced in this field to do so before it is offered to the public for other gliders consumption.
Dont throw it out there just because it is convenient.

Powdered eggs are dehydrated eggs. The extended shelf life, like all dehydrated foods, comes from the fact that the moisture has been removed and bacteria needs that moisture to make the food spoil. It has worked that way for centuries and many food used to be dehydrated to preserve them before we had freezers and canning processes.

I wouldn't mind seeing her add some dehydrated fruits and veggies to make this a more complete and convienent diet.
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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:08 pm

Peggy, I had not even considered all the different variations of dried egg products - that just adds to my concern. It appears that she is selling only single batch packages.

My biggest concern is the confusion factor.

Her web page indicates that you "just add the liquid ingredients". Now she has posted that these packaged combinations are "Revised HPW" and "Revised Blended Diet" and that revised recipes will be sent with each order.

Unless she gives these a unique name, if the buyer misplaces the 'revised' directions, and searches for the directions for HPW or the Blended Diet - they will only find the ORIGINAL Recipes and not ones that adjust the water amount for the reconstitution of the egg in the mix.

As for the Blended Diet - not all versions call for the Egg - so people may purchase from her and not be able to prepare the version that does not call for egg.

I agree, folks will also not have first hand information on the make up of the particular brand of powdered egg she chooses to use in her prepackaged mix.

I considered packaging the dry ingredients for the Blended Diet myself for sale but I decided that I could not be sure of the quality of the combined ingredients once it left my hands. Each item has a different expiration date, I store my premeasured 1 batch mixes (for my own use) in the freezer. Others may store them in a warm place - then question the quality of the mix if it should cause a problem later. It could possibly come back to haunt me. (Even a perceived problem could be tossed out as a liability in this community)

Anita, you are right. She could add dehydrated fruits & veggies and make it an all in one mix for the folks that want all the preparation including nutrient and ratio calculations done for them - but she needs to use a unique name for her product.

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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:24 pm

Quote :
Peggy, I had not even considered all the different variations of dried egg products

Lets remember you also have Whole powdered eggs, Powdered egg whites and powdered egg mixes... each is different, each with different amounts of nutrients and ratios.

Candy I totally agree with you and your statement:

Quote :
Anita, you are right. She could add dehydrated fruits & veggies and make it an all in one mix for the folks that want all the preparation including nutrient and ratio calculations done for them - but she needs to use a unique name for her product.

I am NOT and will not get into a diet *war* I am just trying to state my concerns just like others are trying to do. This is not about *who* is better or who has this or that, this is about not wanting OUR mixes unified with someone elses mix that have chosen to add things of her own accord. Not saying she is wrong for doing it (having her own creation), just saying I dont want people to confuse her diet with the one that many folks come to me and ask me about because it is a diet I have put out there. Just because similar items may be used does NOT make it the same diet.
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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:18 pm

Good night people -

Let's be honest here - the HPW diet was not created and tested by one of the companies you think Celeste should be using. Or, was it?

Let's all take a deep breath and re think how we want to approach this thread. Comments like this:
Quote :
THIS is insane..
are completely uncalled for and will not be tolerated in this thread.

Quote :
Quote :
Quote:
Peggy, I had not even considered all the different variations of dried egg products


Lets remember you also have Whole powdered eggs, Powdered egg whites and powdered egg mixes... each is different, each with different amounts of nutrients and ratios.
Celeste is not using all these different things. She is using ONE specific powdered egg product and has shared that information with you. She has shared the research she did and WHY she chose THIS specific powdered egg product as opposed to others. So, now you are questioning and picking at the IDEA rather than the specific product. So, I'll state right up front, I am not convinced that the idea is a bad one. In fact, I think it is a darn good one.

If you wish to discuss the specific PRODUCT that Celeste is using, then I would welcome intelligent feedback on that.

Quote :
this is about not wanting OUR mixes unified with someone elses mix that have chosen to add things of her own accord. Not saying she is wrong for doing it (having her own creation), just saying I dont want people to confuse her diet with the one that many folks come to me and ask me about because it is a diet I have put out there. Just because similar items may be used does NOT make it the same diet.
I agree, Peggy - it does not make it the same diet. However, I will say that I know very few people who feed HPW as written. Of the many, many people that I have met and personally talked with on the phone about diet (and I speak with every person who ever contacts me about a health issue - an average of 7 per week - about the diet they feed), only a handful feed HPW as written. Those same people are sharing their modified recipes with all of their friends and no one is coming down on them so hard. Maybe it is because no one ever started a thread asking them about their variations????


Perhaps, rather than insinuating that Celeste must be some sort of idiot who never did any research (which is NOT the case), the better way to approach this would be a nicely worded PM to the effect of "since the diet has been modified from the original, would you mind changing the name? I am concerned that there might be confusion." The end. Wait and see the response you get before jumping all over all the boards to be sure your point is heard by many. And, yes, I have read the entire PM conversation between you two.


Give people credit. Are you saying that the general community member who feeds HPW or the Blended diet will be "confused" by a product named "HPW VARIATION" or something of the sort? Really? Are these same people confused when they feed Bourbon's Modified Leadbetters and sometimes making the original Leadbetters mixture? Or are they smart enough to know what diet they feed and remember the name of it? Are people who feed HPW sometimes getting confused and just sprinkling High Protein Wombaroo powder on their glider's food? Or are they smart enough to know that the diet that uses the EXACT letters as the supplement in the diet is different from the supplement itself? People are smarter than that. Let's give them a little credit.

Having said that, I have shared with Celeste that I would like to see her rename her product as well, for my own reasons. I think it SHOULD have a unique name, as I personally think it is a novel idea and one with some merit. In fact, if she were to add a few other ingredients and vacuum pack them together, I would very likely use it when traveling with my gliders.


As to the original question by Adri -
Dear Adri, you know I love you to the moon and back, but I'm one of the ones you are speaking of and I know it. So, I'm gonna tell you why I created the diet I did and why I have posted it. I started looking for a different diet because I have a lot of sick and injured gliders pass through my home and in treating them with BML or HPW I noted that they did improve on both diets, but that they began to have other issues that I was not happy with (decreased energy levels, increased constipation, increased number of seizures for those with seizures, significant increase in weight, etc, etc). At about this same time, I had a dog with some significant health issues. One of the suggestions that Dr. Walsh made for my dog got me to thinking and researching on my own. I returned to Dr. Walsh and began the conversation with him about a green diet for gliders. To me, it makes sense that gliders should have more plant proteins and less animal proteins. So, I began studying the things that can cause constipation, seizures, anal gland impaction, and other health issues. I studied the glider diet in the wild. I studied the diets fed in Australia and England. I studied the health benefits of some of the foods gliders eat in the wild and compared them to the health benefits of things such as yucca, spirulina, acacia, barley grass, wheat grass, milk thistle, red palm oil, coconut oil, flax seed, nopalito, and so on and so on. We used this information to create a new diet. Over the course of six months, Dr. Walsh and I worked together to create a diet and then to tweak it until we were happy with it. Yep, I still tweak it today. Will probably never stop making modifications to the diet because I hope to never stop learning more about gliders and their overall health needs.

I feed the diet I do because I like the results - my gliders have more energy and are more active than they were on the other diets. People that visit my home very frequently remark about the schedule my gliders keep and the energy level they have when playing (this is why toys don't last long at my home). Sick gliders get well faster and STAY well. Injured gliders heal quickly. Gliders with seizures have fewer seizures overall than they did 3 years ago (before I fed this diet). I very, very rarely see any constipation in my home. I have had necropsies on every glider that has passed away in my home save for three, and in every case, the gliders who spent the majority of their lives on this diet had no liver or kidney issues upon necropsy, but most of those that were on other diets for the majority of their lives DID have either a kidney or a liver issue (or both). To me, these are all the results I need right now.

What makes me qualified to create a diet? Well, what made Peggy or Bourbon or Priscilla or Candy qualified? Anyone know?
I own gliders. I love my gliders. I have treated many, many sick, injured and malnourished gliders and I have taken the additional step to start a research organization and to begin tracking health issues and to study whether any of these health issues might be related to the diets being fed to those gliders. These are all the qualifications I have to offer. Most of them are the exact same as the people that created the diet many of you are using.

I ONLY posted my diet publicly after being ASKED to do so. I would have fed it here in my home for 5 years or more before posting it had I not been asked. Today, if anyone asks what I feed my gliders and why, I am happy to tell them. Should I later learn that I have been terribly mistreating my own gliders, I'll do my best to warn everyone else. Until then, I can only share what I know and how I know it.

In the end, I feel that everyone can decide for themselves what they want to feed and WHY. This is why I created the "Ingredient Checklist" section here on TSS. So that people can become INFORMED and make their own decisions. I think that it is presumptious to say that the "poop will hit the fan" for people feeding any of these diets. Well, unless you happen to know for sure exactly what the dietary requirements of sugar gliders are.

Now, let me pose a question of my own:
Has the diet you are feeding been tested in an independent lab? Are there pages and pages of documentation and research done on the diet you feed? Or, did someone take what they know about gliders, what they know about diet and what they know about the general nutritional requirements of all mammals and create a diet that they think is great and share it with others?

Please - anyone with research and documentation, share it with us! Either here or in our "Ingredient Checklist" section.

In the end, if you think I am wrong and you think my diet is whack, don't feed it. Feed what you are comfortable with. I will do the same and we will all be happy.

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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Very well said, Val. How do you do it?
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Adri



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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:16 am

Val, you are my friend and I love you!!!! (Very much I may add) BUT it was presumptuous of you to think this thread was or has anything to do with you or your diet. I feel you possess more than sufficient knowledge in the care, husbandry and medical treatment of gliders to research, compile and formulate a diet plan that your vet approves and works for you and your gliders. To be completely honest this thread had nothing to do with Celeste or her dry HPW formula either.

It had been a long sleepless night and I was reading on GC and the more I read the more preoccupied I became....here is why...There happens to be a respected member on GC that decided that she was going to combine the components of the HPW diet freeze them together and feed it. Well here is the problem with that, if you throw in the HPW, fruits and veggies together and then feed there is really no way of knowing how much of what those gliders are getting. Also she alters the amount fed and decreases it, to ME this can and more than likely pose an issue somewhere down the road. Now when that happens is it fair of her to say "my gliders have been fed HPW all this time" xyz must be the result of feeding HPW. Fair? NOT in my book. Now this instance was directly related to HPW, but there have been many others with other diets as well.
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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:28 am

Ok... well I really apologize for creating such a conundrum.... oh wait, no I don't LOL... well all this banter has gotten my creative juices flowing Very Happy (yet again) Val, first and for most THANK YOU! ( and to everyone else who feels this issue has been blown way out of proportion) It's always nice to know when someones got your back :) and Candy and Peggy , have no fear -I am working on changing the names but it isn't going to happen over night. I changed it to a "Revised" version for now until I can work out something else.

Also I have accepted the challenge of trying to create a "True" complete powdered diet mix as so many have suggested. I should really thank you Candy because now you have really got me thinking whether your diet is really the right choice for my gliders. I don't mean that disrespectfully, just that you guys got me thinking and wondering about what my gliders really need to be healthy. As Val said...none of us REALLY KNOW for sure what they need because there is not much scientific data out there but hopefully that's changing for the better.

I have some calls into some "people" (ha ha - I know I sound like I'm putting out a hit on someone LOL) and I am going to do my best to put something together that "I" canl feel completely comfortable with and if others like it too, thats great andif they don't thats fine too.

Thanks again everyone, and before this goes any further...."Lets just pull up our big girl panties and deal with it!"



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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:25 pm

Val, I love what you had to say. Hurray for you!

Celeste, Just name it the Celeste diet? Its a pretty name! I respect your decision to try to improve on things.

By the way...Val, interested in what you had to say about your diet, where can I read up on it more? I am intrigued!
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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:53 pm

Jill, it is a post in the Glider Gourmet section (same section as this post). It is a sticky along with several other diets.

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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:35 pm

Quote :
Celeste, Just name it the Celeste diet? Its a pretty name! I respect your decision to try to improve on things.

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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:07 am

You are welcome. LOL you certainly have been the subject of discussion lately!
While I care what everyone in the world feeds ALL the animals, we can only do what we can in our small individual worlds. So I try to not care so much, and do what I can to help in a smaller area. Diet is always a huge area of disagreement with any animal. I STILL get people advising me to NOT use natural maple syrup in a glider diet. Even though Dr Rosemary Booth actually recommended it in one of her diet studies.
I mentioned in another forum how I was working on trying to do a ready mix diet as well. I was weighing out and mixing dried fruit, and working on getting the ratios just right, so it was an add water and good to go type of food. But for various reasons have put the project on hold, and instead just offer the dried fruit. I was also considering offering the "dry portion" of what I feed like you do, and just add the wet ingredients, but I was worried about proper storage and mixing etc. For years I wouldn't even tell people what I feed. But I got so many emails about it thats why I posted it, and decided to not try to "sell" it. I didn't want to feel responsible, although I feel the owner is 100% responsible to do their own homework and research for themselves.
People have even emailed me and asked me to make the "glider stew" for them, I declined due to shipping concerns, but I put the recipe up for them.
I have had many people, including a scientist, my vet, and my gliders approve my diet.
wow, did I go off topic, sorry so long winded, it happens after a cup of coffee :)
So Celeste, do what you think is right and let others decide. I dont see you breaking anyone's arm and saying "buy my diet!"
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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:48 am

Quote :
wow, did I go off topic,
Why, yes you did.

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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:59 pm

srlb wrote:

THIS is insane...

I guess she changed her mind about powdered eggs (or other powdered ingredients) being "insane." ????
http://www.facebook.com/#!/permalink.php?story_fbid=192817724075113&id=100000406603879

Ingredients:
http://www.hpwplus.com/ingredients/ingredients.htm


Having said that, Peggy can make and sell any diet product she likes - JUST like Celeste can. It is up to each of you to review the research data, listen to testimony from those feeding the diet and review the ingredients & preparation procedure and decide for yourself if this or any diet is the one for you.

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Passionate = one step down from crazy

We can only be said to be alive in those moments when our hearts are conscious of our treasures - Thornton Wilder

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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:13 pm

I believe using HPW as part of the name for a new product only magnifies the confusion that has come up lately over the various modifications that are being made to Peggy's original HPW Diet which was based on Wombaroo High Protein Supplement.

She recently asked me to stop suggesting that folks, who were concerned about the low calcium to phosphorus ration of the original HPW Diet, add additional calcium carbonate to the mix to raise the ratio to 2:1. Peggy has stated that she does not think the HPW Diet needs additional calcium. She has said she does not worry about ratios.

So now she has a new product she calls HPW PLUS - which is said to be a new product made in the US and the product now has a 2:1 ratio. It is clear that at least part of her new formulation was to add calcium to the mix. In addition she has introduced yet another new product called HPW COMPLETE.

So was Peggy not concerned about her diet having a 0.96:1 ratio - but has formulated a new product that corrects something she was not concerned about?

In the future, if health issues are observed in someone's gliders and they are asked "what diet do you feed?" and they reply "HPW" We will need to play 20 questions on which HPW variety they are really feeding. HPW Original Recipe, HPW Original with added green juice, HPW Original with applesauce in place of part of the honey, HPW Original recipe with various amounts of green juice substituting for x amount of honey or water, HPW PLUS - with or without green juice, HPW COMPLETE - with or without green juice, Then there are all those personal "Modified HPW" recipes posted on individual breeder's web pages.

What happens when folks misunderstand that Wombaroo High Protein Supplement (that many folks simply call HPW Powder) is not the same as HPW PLUS or HPW COMPLETE? Just more confusion and possible use of the wrong product with the wrong HPW recipe.

How would we NOT be surprised at people being confused by the "HPW Diet?"

I am surprised she has been able to keep the price comparable to that of Wombaroo High Protein Supplement. I actually would expect the price to be higher if she has found a company to do the commercial mixing and packaging of 2 new products with such a relatively small potential sales market. At least I hope these two products are being produced at a commercial facility equipped to safely and consistently produce food products.
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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:30 pm

Quote :
So was Peggy not concerned about her diet having a 0.96:1 ratio - but has formulated a new product that corrects something she was not concerned about?
Good question.

Quote :
In the future, if health issues are observed in someone's gliders and they are asked "what diet do you feed?" and they reply "HPW" We will need to play 20 questions on which HPW variety they are really feeding. HPW Original Recipe, HPW Original with added green juice, HPW Original with applesauce in place of part of the honey, HPW Original recipe with various amounts of green juice substituting for x amount of honey or water, HPW PLUS - with or without green juice, HPW COMPLETE - with or without green juice, Then there are all those personal "Modified HPW" recipes posted on individual breeder's web pages.
It might be a bit of a pain, but no more so than having to figure out which version of the Blended diet someone is feeding.

I keep seeing people suggest that Peggy change the name of this diet. I guess I don't get that. People have been using Peggy's diet for YEARS and all of us - those who use it and those who don't - call it HPW or the HPW diet. Frankly, she could change the name to "Crap on a Cracker" now and people will still call it HPW. This is the name we use to refer to the diet Peggy began marketing. Why would she change the name of the diet just because she has started using a different brand of supplement? To me, that would be like changing the name of the Whopper because they started getting their pickles from a different vendor. It is still a Whopper because that is what Burger King named that particular sandwich.

I never liked the name "HPW" for her diet to start with, but it stuck and has been used by all for a very long time, so it is not going to be any less confusing to change the name, IMO.


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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:34 pm

Val, since the HPW PLUS and HPW COMPLETE has been brought up, I was wondering if you noticed anything of concern in the ingredients? Because this diet is fresh on the table, I find it hard to just automatically trust it, and seeing as how I wouldn't know what to look for, I couldn't do the analysis myself.

To be noted, this question is for Val, not Peggy. No offense. I just don't want a biased answer.
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PostSubject: Re: I have something I need to get off my chest....   Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:28 pm

It is a fair question, but to be honest with you, I have not put very much time into investigating the new diet recipes. The reason being - simply for ME and my rescue, you could not pay me enough money to feed them something that I just add water to on a regular basis. That is simply not the way I choose to feed.

It is my personal belief that there is no better way to get the things our bodies need than through nature. Therefore, most of the vitamins and nutrients we feed our gliders should come through FRESH foods (not frozen, cooked or processed). When fresh foods are not available or practical, then I opt for organic frozen or organic dried foods. This is just my personal way. The diet I feed does not regularly use any powdered, processed or synthetic foods or supplements. I'm not saying these things are bad in and of themselves, just saying that they don't fit into my philosophy for glider diet and feeding.

So, I have not looked into the diet that much. I think that if you want to feed something simple and brainless, this is much better than glider grub or that sunscript pellet stuff. I just don't understand the need to make it easier to feed gliders. I feed many more than any of you on a daily basis and it is not at all hard for me to chop fresh foods daily for them. It just isn't something that I find tedious or troublesome. I enjoy feeding my gliders and enjoy it even more when I know they are getting a wide variety of fresh, wholesome, nutritious foods.

I don't think that answered your question. I will have to look into the new powder Peggy is offering in order to make any further comments. And, honestly, I don't plan to do that any time before the RRRoundup. But, if these discussions continue, I might be compelled to give it more of my time between now and then. I'm sorry that I don't have more to offer you right now in terms of positive or negative feedback.

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~*~ Val ~*~
Passionate = one step down from crazy

We can only be said to be alive in those moments when our hearts are conscious of our treasures - Thornton Wilder

We are what we are, no matter what we might wish to be, or pretend to be. - Dean Koontz in The Face

My favorite color is orange - I'm the normal one.
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